I’m hearing information about a new release from Danfoss, I had heard one was due, so this is a place holder for more information.
http://forum.fibaro.com/viewtopic.php?t=938&sid=b74479d6b16be107f615c857d3ae22c0
Does anyone know if this is indeed a a new one, is anyone using this?
Does it address the delays that were occurring with remote commands?
@Floris shared the following in another thread.
[quote=“Floris, post:16, topic:173040”]Hi,
I was also looking in to this and send danfoss an email and got the following reply.
[i]I am glad that you like the design of the product.
Our new electronic radiator thermostats comes many different versions (different adapters, instructions packages ect.)
Overall there are three different kinds
a) Living ECO – a standalone programmable thermostat
b) Living connect – A thermostat which can be controlled be the Danfoss link panel
c) Living connect Z – a thermostat that can be controlled by a z-wave controller
From what I read in your mail you are interested in the living connect Z (which communicates using z-wave and has code nr 014g0012)
This means that you can control it from a z-wave controller
I have attached a user guide to this email – in it you can see the technical requirements the controller need to have in order to properly control the living connect Z.
(I know that the Vera comes in many different versions so be sure to get a version that has support for SUC)
On top of the technical requirements you can of course evaluate the different user interfaces, but as this is a very subjective matter I will stop by saying you should look for a user interface that displays the connect as a Radiator thermostat.
I hope this answers your questions[/i]
I was looking in to this SUC and found that it is set to 0. Would that change any thing (i own a Vera lite)?[/quote]
Checking the Danfoss website they do not seem to mention a 014G0012 version yet
http://heating.danfoss.com/xxTypex/585379_MNU17461952.html
But looking at the manual Floris has shared, it does indeed look like a new one and it’s also postioined as a much more generic Z-wave release. Previous references to use the Danfoss Link are replaced with Z-Wave controller and it also uses pictures of a generic PC/laptop.
As Floris is new to the forum he’s not able to upload anything, I’ve shared the PDF he was sent
HI,
Send a mail to Danfoss to ask about changes like the firmware and got the following reply.
[i]Hi Floris
It is not possible to firmware update the Danfoss living connect Z´s
So there is no updates for it. – at the same time I can tell you that we don’t have anything on our list that we would like to update, so even if we could there would be no updates in the near future.
The issues that you find in some forums concerning “getting our product to work” is normally concerning errors in expectations.
For instance it is NOT possible to get the current temperature back from the device as we have not designed it to report this. – so no matter how hard you try this will not be possible.
What we have designed it for is to regulate the flow of hot water in the radiator so that you as a user will experience that you get the “desired” temperature as fast as possible after making a change but with a minimum of energy.
This is done be opening the valve in a lot of small steps (not: on/off) and once the right temperature is reached it will maintain this temperature be continuously regulating the flow of hot water.
Concerning SUC: some versions of the Vera software supports it, some do not so you will have to search their documentation find out which version you need.
I have heard that you might have to do what Vera calls Migrate to another (sometimes older) firmware to get the SUC functionality but imagine that you can find more about this in the documentation for the Vera.
I hope this answers you questions
Kind regards[/i]
maybe my expectations were wrong. But this is clear to me now, what the functionality is of this device. The only thing what im stil struggeling with is this SUC…
Can any one help me out with that if my Vera lite will support this Danfoss device?
Hi Floris
Thanks for sharing the answers to your questions .
In regards to compatibility - , I already have a Danfoss Living Connect installed and it seems to be communicating well with my Vera lite on the latest Vera UI5 firmware. Whether it is communicating as it is designed is another matter.
If you do a search on “Living Connect” you will see a number of threads on is product, where people have shared their experiences.
For me personally, the question I now have is what exactly is SUC and what does it do/add to improve the running of the TRV?
“The Static update controller (SUC) is a special function of a static
controller. Most static controllers (a controller with fixed location and
powered by mains) can perform as an SUC. However, the function
typically needs to be activated first.
The SUC receives the updated routing table from the primary
controller and offers this routing table to all other controllers in the
network. Because the SUC is a static controller and therefore always
active in the network, any other controller can frequently request an
updated routing table from the SUC.
To make sure that all other nodes and particularly other controllers are
aware of the presence of a SUC in the network, the Node ID of an
activated SUC is communicated within the network periodically.”
“The nodeID set in the WAKE_UP_INTERVAL_SET command must be for a permanently listening device which reponds to the commands sent from living connect®. This means PC’s with USB sticks will only work if the PC is never turned off. If the controller is turned off for extended periodes, living connect® will use the batteries too fast.
Although living connect® supports single commands, multi commands must always be used to ensure two years battery lifetime.
If multiple thermostats are installed in the same room it is important that the controller ensures that they all have the same schedule and the same setpoint.”
AFAIK, the SUC Z-Wave feature is stripped from newer Z-Wave firmware versions, and thus not available when using Z-Wave firmware 3.20 with Vera (which is the default now).
Z-Wave firmware 2.78 would support it. But I’m not sure why you would need this for the Danfoss. (You can always re-include any of your controllers to update their network information.)
There is nothing like keeping it simple for the novices, is there 
Some open questions…
I’m confused why then is an always-on Vera unit not an SUC by default/design?
If not, any idea what the rational was for why it was ‘stripped’ out in the latest version now used?
How is this different to the routing (nearest node) and the heal options that are in Vera today?
Floris mentioned the following in one of his posts, any ideas where this SUC setting/value can be found?
Finally, in regards to hkmod25 comment
[quote=“hkmod25, post:7, topic:173081”]To make sure that all other nodes and particularly other controllers are
aware of the presence of a SUC in the network, the Node ID of an
activated SUC is communicated within the network periodically."
Does this tie in Floris comment in that the NodeID value therefore theZwave ID of Vera itself, you know, the value you see in the neighbours info on Zwave devices? so ‘1’
[quote=“hkmod25, post:7, topic:173081”]Although living connect® supports single commands, multi commands must always be used to ensure two years battery lifetime.
If multiple thermostats are installed in the same room it is important that the controller ensures that they all have the same schedule and the same setpoint."[/quote]
Finally, how do you do a ‘multi command’?
The newer Z-Wave firmware (from the designers of Z-Wave) offers new features that Vera makes use of (but SUC was removed), so that is the default. If the SUC feature is (more) important to you, you could downgrade. I believe Vera will then be a SUC(/SIS) by default.
It is a mechanism to automatically keep devices that can do their own routing up-to-date on the current network information. That is, as you include/exclude nodes, the other devices (controllers) will find out about it. Without SUC you manually update the controllers.
I’m curious as to why this was brought up in relation to the Danfoss.
My guess is that Danfoss’s focuses on their wireless TRVs to work with their own Danfoss Link product, which I think uses z-wave but is not certified as it does its own thing, and perhaps does not follow the ‘standards’ required for certification. So SUC is maybe how they designed it and prefer it to run/function.
http://heating.danfoss.com/PCMPDF/DanfossLink-CC_X002585_VDFZC102.pdf
I strees the above is my interpretation based on things ive seen or read, but I might be way off…
I am trying to follow this as well as I ordered 3 of these units and they have been delayed since the new units with the new software will be delivered in about a week or so…
I just dont get the real issue here…
What has changed and what does it affect?
Is the only issue that the temperature measurement cant be read? But as long as vera can send a setpoint to the units, why is this is an issue?
Im sorry for my noobness… Im really trying to understand and get the most out of my system!
The issue with the old units is that it can take up to 1.5 hour before the unit reacts to a setpoint change from Vera. It will accept the new setpoint, but it takes ages before it actually adjusts the valve. (Hitting the middle button on the unit causes an instant change, though). For most of my radiators this is not an issue; I just need to send new setpoints 1.5 hour early. But for a few radiators it is a problem, as I want them to turn on when I turn on the lights in the room.
I’m hoping Danfoss fixed this problem in the new units. Where did you order them?
www.wirelesswonen.nl from The Netherlands (I’m dutch ;D)
They told me the sotware change thing and the change of type number.
Their supplier was out of stock and Danfoss was sending the new software ones as soon as possible ( they do not send the old ones and Danfoss did not correctly handle an overlap the delivery of the old and new software units).
I don’t mind about the small delay, prices are the best I’ve seen from The Netherlands and they keep me well informed. Its seems not their fault and it’s not that my heating is not working in the meantime 8)
[quote=“intveltr, post:13, topic:173081”]The issue with the old units is that it can take up to 1.5 hour before the unit reacts to a setpoint change from Vera. It will accept the new setpoint, but it takes ages before it actually adjusts the valve. (Hitting the middle button on the unit causes an instant change, though). For most of my radiators this is not an issue; I just need to send new setpoints 1.5 hour early. But for a few radiators it is a problem, as I want them to turn on when I turn on the lights in the room.
I’m hoping Danfoss fixed this problem in the new units.[/quote]
Intveltr - is the following (from Danfoss) a valid rational/reason for the delay?
[quote=“Floris, post:4, topic:173081”]What we have designed it for is to regulate the flow of hot water in the radiator so that you as a user will experience that you get the “desired” temperature as fast as possible after making a change but with a minimum of energy.
This is done be opening the valve in a lot of small steps (not: on/off) and once the right temperature is reached it will maintain this temperature be continuously regulating the flow of hot water.[/quote]
Hi all,
I got an other mali from Danfoss on what product to use.
[i]Hi Floris
The 014G0002 only works with our Danfoss link panel (some old versions could also communicate using z-wave but current products cannot )
The 014G0012 can communicate using standard Z-wave so this is the option to go for if you want to use it with a Z-wave controller.
Kind regards[/i]
Hopefully they resolved the 1,5 hour delay as that would not really help the energy consumpion, which is one of their selling points.
Thanks for sharing Floris,
As is sound like you’ve got a good contact there, if you get the opportunity it would be good to get an official comment from Danfoss on this delay.
This forum has a number of examples of people saying that this delay was a huge negative, often returning them to the company they bought them from.
I have understood from a supplier of Danfoss cranes that the software has changed but there is no change in the functionality for the Zwave users.
Only the DeviLink support has been removed from the 014G0012 but the Zwave software has not changed.
Missed opportunity I say…
I’ve seen a manual for these thermostats that show a few extra menu options: an option to specify whether you have installed the thermostat vertically or horizontally, and an option to disable the “intelligent temperature control” feature. The latter is probably what causes the incredibly long delays.
What I could not determine if this was a very old or a very new manual… Perhaps the option to disable intelligent control was removed at some point (rather than added) because it drained the batteries way too fast.
I think i have that option on my LC see section 4.5 & 4.6
http://www.zwave-products.co.uk/online/templatemedia/all_lang/resources/DAN_LIVC_M30_in_en.pdf
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