Hi, I am new user. I included my HA07 as a secondary controller. I created the scenes for on and off and this all works. Since according to the docs, all the off buttons are Scene 0, this is confusing for the family.
Is there a way to NOT use scenes and just have it work like Den Lamp on/off using button 1 on/off?
Once you have created your scenes on Vera, include the controller again. This will cause the on/off type devices to be transferred to the HA07. Then the off side of the button will turn the on/off devices off.
If you really want to associate a single device with a channel, you can. Follow the directions on page 16 of the HA07 manual, “Associating Modules to Channels”.
(I don’t know if this works like the GE 45600 where you lose individual device assignments whenever you update the secondary controller from Vera.)
As wscannell wrote, it’s probably easier to program a single-device scene.
This is what I did. I reset the HA07, included it as a secondary controller but the buttons did not function until I programmed them as scene buttons.
If you really want to associate a single device with a channel, you can. Follow the directions on page 16 of the HA07 manual, “Associating Modules to Channels”.
(I don’t know if this works like the GE 45600 where you lose individual device assignments whenever you update the secondary controller from Vera.)
As wscannell wrote, it’s probably easier to program a single-device scene.[/quote]
Can you have the HA07 as a secondary controller and still associate modules to the channels?
Guess I dont understand what the function is of a secondary controller versus primary.
Huh? My vera2 (UI5) is primary with a both a GE and the intermatic HA07 as secondary controllers.
On both I programmed devices to their buttons without any issues. Hitting an Off button will switch off the device (lamp/module) that I programmed for it.
I’ve created scenes on Vera after I included the remotes and programmed their buttons and all is working fine.
This is what I did. I reset the HA07, included it as a secondary controller but the buttons did not function until I programmed them as scene buttons.[/quote]
Here is what it boils down to.
A traditional (single) zwave switch reports the following
Button UP (aka ON) the switch sends a scene code 255 along with its zwave code that is unique to each zwave device on the network.
Button DOWN (aka OFF) the switch sends a scene code 0 (that’s a zero) along with its zwave code that is unique to each zwave device on the network.
The problem come in when you have a single zwave device with more than one set of on & off buttons.
An intermatic table to controller has 6 sets of on & off buttons not counting the top all on & all off buttons… It also has a mode switch button that makes the main set of 6 on & off button behave as an additional set of six on & off buttons. So to cut this short the table top intermatic controller has buttons 1 thru 12 and here is how it behaves.
Press button 1 up/on the controller sends its zwave ID # followed by scene 1 ( I’m being very basic here the protocol is more complex I’m sure)
Press button 2 up/on the controller sends its zwave ID # followed by scene 2
Press button 3 up/on the controller sends its zwave ID # followed by scene 3
Etc etc
Where zwave IMHO breaks down is handling the press of the down/off button in all cases as per the zwave protocol OR how intermatic choose to implement it pressing OFF on buttons 1 thru 12 always returns scene 0 for example…
Press button 1 down/off the controller sends its zwave ID # followed by scene 0
Press button 2 down/off the controller sends its zwave ID # followed by scene 0
Press button 3 down/off the controller sends its zwave ID # followed by scene 0
Press button 4 down/off the controller sends its zwave ID # followed by scene 0
Etc etc
In other words there’s no way to tell what off button was pressed via Vera.
Actually, the buttons on the HA07 and other remotes are like a dimmer switch. Button 1 sends 10%, button 2 sends 20%, etc. Only 9 buttons are supported this way. If I remember right, the HA07 buttons only work up to 6, but I could be wrong on that. The off side sends 0%. These % values are translated to scene numbers by Vera. Vera runs the appropriate scene when the button is pressed.
The magic to this is that once you set up the scenes, re-include the remote. When this is done, the devices from the scenes are programmed by Vera onto the remote. The remote then turns on devices directly and thus can also function to turn off those devices (assuming they are on/off type devices). So when the on side of scene is activated on the remote, the devices get two commands - one from the remote and one from Vera. When the off side of the scene is activated, the devices get turned off by the remote. Vera then gets the state of the devices either from polling or from the device directly if the device tells Vera that it just turned off.
You can (i.e. I haven’t tried recently for HA07, but use an HA09 that way), but Vera wouldn’t show the correct state of the modules until she polls them.
This just doesn’t make any sence to me… Let’s remove Vera from the equation for the sake of simplicity.
You have a
1 – HA07 12 channel controller
12 – zwave appliance or dimmer modules
You can plug them all in and quickly pair each of the 12 zwave modules to each of the 12 buttons/channels/scenes the zwave protocol must call for a button on any zwave device to identify itself when it is triggered…
If each of the first 9 buttons sent out DIM levels that wouldn’t make any sense and would also mean that I couldn’t program all 12 buttons to trigger its respective module.
The fact is Vera simply isn’t decoding the HA07 communication properly.
Why? Well first it only recognizes the first 1-9 button presses 10,11 & 12 do not function BUT when you reIncluded a fully configured HA07 the 10 11 and 12 triggers that continue to not work in Vera work fine in the little set top controller.
Also everyone insists that all 12 of the off buttons send a 0 as its scene… This simply can’t be true because if you left out the Vera as with my example above pressing the button 1 off it doesn’t trigger devices configured to buttons 2 thru 12 to turn off only the device associated with button 1 turns off.
I’d love to have a raw zwave sniffer I’m sure this could have been resolved years ago if someone just looked at the zwave messages coming off the HA07 controller.
This is a repost but since both topics are being used I wanted to make sure this info was seen…
[quote=“micasaverde, post:5, topic:164869”]But, to get around the limitation of a scene only controlling lights, we invented our own workaround: method #2. Vera tells the scene controller that Vera is a light. Vera programs scene #1 to set Vera to 1% dim level. Scene #2 programs Vera to 2%, etc. Now, when Vera gets the ‘Light switch go to 2% dim level’ Vera says “Aha, scene button #2 was pushed”, and runs the scene which has the ‘scene button #2’ event attached. In this way the scene can set the thermostat, turn on an X10 light, turn off the TV with infrared, etc. So with method #2, Vera is acting as the intermediary. This is the ‘treat scenes as events’ option.
Now you see the problem with the ‘off’ buttons, right? The off button just sends a ‘go to level 0’ to whatever node it otherwise would turn on. Since scene buttons #1 through 5 all just turn “Vera the light switch” on to different dim levels, the ‘off’ for scenes #1 through 5 all do the same thing: ‘turn Vera the light switch off, to level 0’. Vera can’t know which one you pressed.
The limitation, therefore, is not from Zensys. It’s because Intermatic did a ‘hack’ to get the off concept to work, since Zensys scenes don’t have an off. And Vera did a ‘hack’ with method #2 to let scenes to do more than lights. And the 2 hacks are not fully compatible.[/quote]
This was a quote from another thread that explained the problem very well…
Link: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,1960.msg7383.html#msg7383
So in short this has nothing to do with DEC to HEX as I first presumed but a much more involved issue.
However there is a bug in so much as if Vera is including itself to each button at a defined ‘dim level’ for some reason it stopped at 9 instead of 12.
In short and to my best guess internal and hidden to us… When you add a HA07 Vera does the following as per the info posted by MCV above.
Button #1 – set Vera to dim level 1%
Button #2 – set Vera to dim level 2%
Button #3 – set Vera to dim level 3%
Button #4 – set Vera to dim level 4%
Button #5 – set Vera to dim level 5%
Button #6 – set Vera to dim level 6%
Button #7 – set Vera to dim level 7%
Button #8 – set Vera to dim level 8%
Button #9 – set Vera to dim level 9%
SO when Vera gets sent a dim message to a specific value from a HA07 it knows what button is pressed… And yes given the issues involved this happens to be an elegant solution. However the folks a MCV dropped the ball when they forgot to add…
Button #10 – set Vera to dim level 10%
Button #11 – set Vera to dim level 11%
Button #12 – set Vera to dim level 12%
This also explains why they can’t tell WHAT off button is due to the way Intermaitc? Or zwave?? Handle turning scenes off… When the HA07 looks at what devices are included in/under button #1 it just send a level of 0 to each and thus Vera can’t just inject other dim levels in the off scenes … Since they really don’t exist but are created on the fly by looking at the devices each button controls.
In a perfect world It would be nice if Vera could create virtual zwave devices because then Vera COULD simply add a different ‘virtual-Vera’ to each button.
Something like this:
Button #1 – set virtVera1 to dim level 255%
Button #2 – set virtVera2 to dim level 255%
…
Button #12 – set virtVera12 to dim level 255%
If they could have pulled this off then they could very well track buttons ON and OFF for all 12 buttons.
Well now that I know what the issue is… All MCV needs to do is add the missing three dim levels 10% 11% and 12% to the missing three buttons 10 11 and 12 and at least we can get full use of all 12 buttons on our HA07s.
Actually, the quoted post is not quite correct. The levels are 10%, 20%, for buttons 1, 2, etc. That is why 10, 11, and 12 will not work. This is from the wiki, probably related to the GE 45601 remote, but I do not have the reference at the moment. The same is true for the GE remote. It has nine buttons and a second function for each of the buttons to make a total of 18. Only the first 9 can work in this scheme.
The problem with OFF is that Zensys does not define a scene off mode. The remotes just send off commands for those devices that are turned on by the scene. Vera does this by telling the remote what devices are in the scene when you re-include the remote. If your scene in Vera just turns on devices, then the off will turn them off (from the remote). Once you have re-included the remote, the remote will turns devices on or off even if Vera is off.
As far as the off issue … Yep I grok the issues involved and short of making X virtual zwave devices where X equaled the number of scene/buttons… something that MCV stated wasn’t an option/how thing worked … Comment can be found in the thread that I linked to…
As to the 1st part if your post… That is odd since MCV Admin was the source of that information and would normally be considered ‘the best source possible’…
I wonder why they would have changed from an elegant 1% , 2% … increment to a 10%, 20% etc since it breaks not only the GE 18 button/scene remote (9 buttons + shift) AND the HA07 12 button/scene tabletop remote (6 buttons + shift) and frankly makes using any of the remotes seem like a really kluged/hackish solution.
Finally… How can I examine a device to see the 10% , 20% etc dim values that are used by Vera to determine what specific button on the remote was pressed?
You can (i.e. I haven’t tried recently for HA07, but use an HA09 that way), but Vera wouldn’t show the correct state of the modules until she polls them.[/quote]
To be sure, just tried the HA07 again. You can.
[quote=“oTi@, post:14, topic:171679”]@DaveGee,
The HA07 just sends on/off/dim commands to the associated devices for each button. (I.e. no Z-Wave scenes involved.)
Button 1 = dim level 1, button 2 = dim level 2, and so forth. Off = 0, so no way to tell the buttons apart.
It doesn’t appear buttons 10, 11 and 12 get programmed by Vera. Presumably a mistake. There’s some related bugs that MCV is working on. I’ll add this issue.[/quote]
See I thought that was the case! After all that quote I found from micasaverde in 2009 said just that and I found nothing else that indicated the values changed from 1,2,3% to 10,20,30%.
@Oti is there a way I could add the dim levels myself?
Well that’s what I was thinking… I know the virtual switch exists and it seems to do what we’d need it to do… However I’m not sure what kind of overhead it would be if one were to create a several dozen of them … Or more.
However if that did work then you wouldn’t need the 1% etc trick since each virtual device would would be unique. Your comment about things not scaling seems like you could be right. I mean those battery operated HA07s are pretty cheap so I could see having 6 or more no problem that would be what 72 virtual devices… All just to catch the ‘off’ action? Not sure it would be worth it and given the virtual switch device you could selectively use them only on switches where you’d need them.
Anyway than you so much for confirming my suspicions and also for filing a report on the missing dim levels. Thanks again!
Well, I’m not going to claim it never was 10/20/30 at one point or another. Currently (1.5.346) it appears to be 1/2/3 etc.
@Oti is there a way I could add the dim levels myself?Not that I'm aware of; this may be device-specific under-the-hood/magic-sauce type stuff.
I have been trying to set my HA07 to trigger complex Vera3 scenes that turn on/off lights, thermostats, virtual switches, etc. I can only seem to get this to control scenes that contain only lights, is this right? Shouldn’t sending 1ON tell Vera to run the whole scene?
M
Yeah, that sounds unexpected. I’d have to try it to see if I get the same results.
Be sure not to use buttons 10, 11 or 12 for complex scenes. For some reason Vera can “program” the HA07 for lights for those buttons, but refuses the run any Vera scenes for those buttons. Buttons 1-9 work correctly for me, and can (and do) contain complex Vera commands.
I restrict buttons 10-12 to just doing lights, keeping the fancy stuff to buttons 1-9.
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