I would recommend DCS wired sensors for both!
I’ve got a sizable home so wiring will not be an option for me. The only wiring I will do will be in one central location for the alarm cabinet, control panel, power, router, vera, etc… the rest of the components will all be wireless.
I must admit, I am starting to explore the idea of an all z-wave security system and not have a dedicated alarm system. I understand it’s not as reliable and the last thing one would want is a false alarm you cannot turn off or unprotected during any downtime. Perhaps a hidden bypass switch to the siren in the event the network fails and you cannot disarm.
I could add a few more window/door z-wave sensors, z-wave motion sensors, wireless cameras and a siren/strobe to my Vera 3 network and run arm/disarm scenes from my kwikset deadbolt.
I could even get a couple of cheap mini tablets, mount them on the walls by the entrances, password protect them and they could serve as dedicated control panels.
I guess the question would be…If I had mini tablets to serve as a control panels, can I have a dedicated app running all the time like automator.app, homewave or sqconnect without logging out?
I would hate to walk in, type in password, launch app, wait for the app to connect, then disarm. By this time the alarm could be triggered. But then again, I could use the kwikset to trigger the disarm.
I would get backup power for my routers and vera of course. I would also get the lithium battery version of the z-wave sensors for extended battery life.
I just hear so much regarding reliability when it comes to z-wave for security. I wonder what steps could be taken to ensure the highest reliability rate?
So many options so many possibilities! =)
(Edit) Sorry, I didn’t want to steer off-topic with this post so perhaps I should start a new thread in another area? Maybe those who have Vera as security could chime in.
The alternative could be hybrid between a dedicate alarm and some ZWave for high traffic night time active area.
That way your external security could be controlled by a dedicated alarm and the wireless sensors are excellent. Even the DSC wireless PIR work very well and the all have a long range greater than 300m (over 1000ft or 10 times ZWave range).
In area where you want instant trigger for internal moment in the night that is specifically for HA , you can use a ZWave sensor.
In my place, I have three ZWave sensors to cover the night HA triggers. The rest of the house uses a dedicate hybrid wired/wireless alarm system. For cross over areas, even the 6 second delays with the DSC wireless motion sensors can be used if there is a night light or the initial trigger can be achieved that gives sufficient light to allow them to activate another light without affecting you too much.
There is a desperate thread about dedicate ZWave security but not many posts and I have only seen a few people on the forum take that route.
With the size you are talking about … you are talking a number of sensors … So you will have a significant investment in this project. And I am sure you will want to be proud of it, and not have to make excuses why things are now working as your family expects.
I personally do not think you will be satisfied with the Z-Wave Motion sensors that are available. Some folks live with their deficiencies. The Z-Wave part is a great idea … the motion sensors they attached to the Z-Wave suck … partially because of the design workarounds because of battery power. It makes Home Automation tricky.
You can always hook a wired Motion Sensor to a Z-Wave or DCS Wireless contact switch. It’s not an out of the box solution. Or connect it to something like an iTach to get 3 input channels via Wifi from a common area.
Yeah, I’ve seen a few desperate threads with very little info. Anyhow, I will most likely go the dedicated DSC wireless route, but still wanted to hear input from users who may have a trick set up using Vera for security.
In any event, I moved my post to a new thread under Lock, Motion & Security Control here: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,18068.0.html
Hopefully, users will chime in with their experiences on that thread and could even help others who want to explore this option.
This is one of the best threads I’ve come across. Nearly everything you need to know to get a DSC system going.
I’ve had my DSC1832/Envisalink combo running for a couple of years. I only use wireless door/window sensors with one wired door (garage, right next to panel). My house is very difficult to wire due to the split-level design.
I just ordered a 5 pack of the pet-immune wireless motions (as well as a 10 pack of window sensors to finish up securing my ground floor).
I understand there’s a 6 second delay for the wireless motions. I currently have 3 z-wave motions. Is anyone using DSC motions for occupancy reporting and HAPPY with it? Or is the delay just not usable for this purpose?
Also, what about outdoor use with the wireless motions?
???
Wow, setting up & programming a DSC alarm system is much more complicated than I had thought it would be.
So, have the 1832 in the cabinet, wired to battery and AC power and siren. Also have a wired Keypad RFK5500 attached.
Also have a wireless keypad (WT5500) and the 2-way transceiver (TR5164-433).
With regard to the TR5164 - does it hardwire to the control panel in the cabinet? It seems to indicate I should connect it to the RED/BLK/YLW/GRN terminals on the 1832 board, but I already have the wired keypad wired into those slots. Do I put them both in those slots (plan is to have wired keypad at cabinet and wireless one elsewhere in house).
Also, I was able to program the clock/time on the wired keypad, but it is still showing system error - telephone line is not present. Where do I get around this - have no plans to hook up a telephone line and I can’t find any program reference to it - wnt to make the system know this so the trouble light goes out
HELP!!
& TIA!
Matt
Yes, it must be wired to the key bus the same as a hardwired keypad either directly or indirectly eg to keypad > to panel.
You need to turn off Telephone Line Supervision.
[015] Third System Option Code
Option Description
[7] ON: the system supervises the telephone line and displays a trouble if disconnected. OFF: the telephone line is not supervised.
[380] First Communicator Option Code
Option Description
[1] ON: the system communicator is enabled
[quote=“mdaecher, post:188, topic:174399”]Also have a wired Keypad RFK5500 attached.
Also have a wireless keypad (WT5500) and the 2-way transceiver (TR5164-433). [/quote]
While typing my reply @Brientem beat me to the punch on the keybus wiring and the TLM disable, but I figured I should give you a heads up that there may be issues with having both the TR5164 and the RFK5500 on the same system. Both are wireless receivers and to the best of my knowledge they may not play well together. I’m not saying that there will be an issue, but there may be. If there is, you would have to replace your RFK5500 with a PK5500
I got my motions setup and working fine.
I have a question on the zone attributes. This page:
…goes into detail, but I’m still uncertain about a couple, 6 and 7.
For doors/windows, I use 123xxxx8
For my entry door: 123x5xx8
For motions: 123x5xx8
For HA monitoring doors: xx3x5xxx
Does this sound OK? everything seems to work fine.
[quote=“Intrepid, post:191, topic:174399”]I got my motions setup and working fine.
I have a question on the zone attributes. This page:
…goes into detail, but I’m still uncertain about a couple, 6 and 7.
For doors/windows, I use 123xxxx8
For my entry door: 123x5xx8
For motions: 123x5xx8
For HA monitoring doors: xx3x5xxx
Does this sound OK? everything seems to work fine.[/quote]
I steered clear of changing zone attributes of my sensors, as there is a zone definition that will suit every possible scenario you need, and they are already set up with the correct and suitable zone attributes. As Ken says in the DIYAlarm post; “Step away from the zone attributes”. The only zone attribute I changed on any of my sensors was my driveway alarm which is wireless, so I had to enable ‘8’ and I also enabled the chime ‘3’. Other than that, didn’t change a thing.
The Zone Definitions that I chose were:
03: Instant 1234x6xxx for exterior non-entry doors (wired, so no ‘8’)
26: 24hr Non-Alarm xxxx5xxxx (again, wired) for all my interior doors .
I also use this with my driveway sensor which is xx3x5xx8x, wireless WITH the chime (option 3)
01: Delay 1 1234x6xxx (you guessed it, wired) for my 2 entry doors
05: Interior Stay/Away 12x456xxx for certain motions (btw, wired)
04: Interior 12x4x6xxx for the rest of the motions (surprise, wired)
I’m guessing if you keep option 3 enabled for every sensor, it will slowly drive you insane. All that chirping would drive me nuts!
But, with all that said, if it works for you as is, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it…
;D
Awesome help. Thank you. I will modify some of mine back to more ‘default’ settings for those things I don’t understand and try it.
Regarding the chime, I like the door chimes on 24/7. The motion chimes are temporary for testing.
Also, I’m not totally dissatisfied with the delay of the wireless motion sensors for home automation triggers. For most places, it will work fine. It is slower than a z-wave, but acceptable to me.
#6, the swinger door option:
Option 6: Swinger Shutdown/No Swinger Shutdown -- If this option is ON, the zone will put the system into alarm if tripped; if that zone is closed (restored), it will trip the system again if opened again (this is a "swinger"). This will happen as many times as is designated in the Swinger Shutdown option under Communication Variables. If option 6 is OFF, the zone will continue to trip the system every time it is restored and re-opened. A door that has been kicked in and damaged will probably not be closed by an intruder; however, a motion detector will continue to reset itself indefinitely.I can’t see why I’d ever want this enabled?
[quote=“Intrepid, post:194, topic:174399”]#6, the swinger door option:
…
I can’t see why I’d ever want this enabled?[/quote]
This is out of the PC11616/1632/1864 Reference Manual and I think it explains its purpose better than the quote you had in your post:
Swinger Shutdown ON
The zone will shut down after a programmed number of alarms, inhibiting further transmissions to the monitoring station. The bell can follow Swinger Shutdown if enabled.
Swinger Shutdown OFF
The zone will not go into swinger shutdown after the programmed number of alarms.
This is also out of the Reference Manual, explaining the transmission limits:
[b][377]-Communication Variables
Swinger Shutdown (Alarms & Restores)[/b]
The value defines the number of attempts (alarm and restore pairs) per zoned that the panel will log and communicate before it shuts down for that zone (“swinger shutdown”). Valid entries are 001 to 014.
Different limits can be programmed for Zone Alarms, Zone Tampers and Maintenance signals. After the panel has generated the programmed number of transmissions for an event it will no longer report that event until the swinger shutdown is reset. For example, the swinger shutdown limit for Zone Alarms is set to [001]. The panel will not send more than 1 alarm signal for each zone with a swinger attribute until the swinger shutdown is reset.
A good example of this would be if, say, your window was broken and used as a point of entry and your motion sensor tripped the alarm. Then, even after the initial trip, the wind continued to blow the curtains and set off the motion sensor again. Without the swinger shutdown, every time the curtains caught a gust of wind, it would trip the alarm again.
Thanks. This still seems like value 6 would only be ON if you had a specific reason and knew what the other swinger settings were. Otherwise you’d want it OFF so there were no swinger time outs.
Zone Alarms default is 3
Zone Tampers default is 3
Maintenance default is 3
To change these, do the following:
*8 [installers code] [377]
The first value that appears is the Zone Alarms value [003]. You can overwrite this value with a value from 000-014. The next two are Zone Tampers and Maintenance, in that order, which can also be overwritten by the same values.
to exit programming
Getting further along with my setup, thanks to everyone here.
I am looking at the zone attributes also, and when I went into my zone/sensor attributes section for zone 110 (*8 5555 110), it did not indicate any attributes on by default - though it seems that there should be? I had to manually add not only the wireless attribute (8), but also 1,3,5 for my door sensor.
Any clue as to why all mine are seemingly defaulted to no attributes? Curious I guess more than anything… though I wish I could just leave them alone as instructed and just add the 8 for wireless…
BTW, keeping a good log of everything - hopefully will help others down the road after I’m finished and post it
Did you set Zone Definitions first in [001] thru [004]? If you set the definitions first, the attributes will come attached to the definitions.
Zone Alarms default is 3
Zone Tampers default is 3
Maintenance default is 3
To change these, do the following:
*8 [installers code] [377]
The first value that appears is the Zone Alarms value [003]. You can overwrite this value with a value from 000-014. The next two are Zone Tampers and Maintenance, in that order, which can also be overwritten by the same values.
to exit programming[/quote]
Thanks so much.
So I’m clear, Zone Alarms default is 3 means that the alarm will not be set off on the fourth violation of that zone IF variable 6 is set to ON? A safety or false alarm feature (in addition to your example of the window/motion)? To keep the thing from being triggered indefinitely? If this is the thinking, I guess I can see the logic behind a limit.