DSC (not about the plugin)

Other Devices & Integrations Door Locks & Sensors
1

I went through the DSC plugin thread. Thanks to all those who made a contribution to this addon.

If I well understand, the DSC (or another real alarm system) is required to really secure the house ?
It also has the benefits of providing (through the plugin), an access to many less costly sensor ?

If it is the case, I would like to add such a system to my environment.

I understand that I will need an interface (either serial to USB or serial to IP) to hook the DSC to Vera ?

Now, I would appreciate receiving some guidance to help me to choose the right model. There is wired and wireless. I assume that if one of my goal is to have access to some less costly sensors, already having Z-Wave, wireless is out of question ?

Now, if I buy a wired system, what would be a good starting point ?
http://www.aartech.ca/dsc-starter-kits/ goes to aartech.ca (I’m in Canada) page with some starter kits. Is there something there that is compatible with the DSC plugin?

Thanks in advance.

2

Alarm systems like DSC are designed to be security systems, and to be monitored by a central station, who can dispatch the proper authorities in the event of trouble. If you’re concerned about home security, you’d be wise to consider an actual alarm system rather than try to make Vera do that.

To get a DSC system to talk to Vera, you’ll need an IT100 interface (for the alarm), and then either a USB-serial or Ethernet-serial adapter to connect to Vera.

In choosing between wired and wireless systems, there are advantages and disadvantages to each. Wired is less expensive, arguably more secure (since there’s no chance of anyone intercepting or spoofing signals from the sensors), and allows you to use any manufacturer’s sensors. Wireless is more expensive (especially for the sensors), quite a bit easier to install (since you don’t need to run wires from each sensor back to the control panel), and arguably more secure (since there aren’t wires going out to each sensor that an intruder might be able to tamper with).

There’s a third option, which is a hybrid system. In that case, you’ll have some wired sensors and some wireless. This allows you to wire the places that are easier to wire, but still have protection on the more difficult areas. AFAIK, all of DSC’s wired systems can be hybrid with the addition of an RF receiver (or an RF receiver/keypad).

When installing a security system, you want to protect every point of entry with a sensor–every exterior door, every window (at least on the ground floor). You’ll also probably want a couple of motion detectors, and may want a smoke/fire alarm or three. Each of those sensors should ideally take one “zone”. So, start by counting up how many zones you’ll need, and leave some room for expansion. You’ll need to buy a system that will support at least that many zones.

For wired systems, the DSC PC1832 is popular, inexpensive, and capable. It supports up to 32 zones. Out of the box, you can wire up to 8 zones, and you can add up to 3 zone expanders which support 8 zones each. You can also install an RF receiver to allow the use of wireless sensors. You will want at least one PK5500 keypad (NOT PK5501), because that gives a text display rather than giving you codes you have to look up to decipher. If you want wireless capabilities instead, get an RFK5500 keypad instead. Of the kits on the link you gave, I’d look at the KIT32219NT, or if you wanted a completely wireless system, the KIT4952.

If you’re concerned about the cost of professional monitoring, be aware that there are a number of central stations, at least in the U.S., who will monitor for around $10/month–you don’t need to pay $40+/month to ADT or the like.

There’s a lot to learn about home alarm systems, and I’ve barely scratched the surface. For a lot more information, check out http://www.diyalarmforum.com/.

3

Thanks danb35 for this information and the link. Quite a good introduction for me.

In fact, I have a Vera2 to control more and more devices in my home.
After reading the plugin thread about DSC, I was under the impression that I could kill two birds with one stone if I buy a compatible DSC system and hook it to VERA:
[ul][li]to have a more robust security system[/li]
[li]to feed Vera with more information (coming from the DSC)[/li][/ul]

Am I right ?

4

I believe that, with the plugin, you can feed information from the DSC system (system and zone status, for example) to Vera. In what way do you envision Vera making your security system more robust?

5

Vera will not make my system more robust, but Vera will be better “informed” if the plugin give me access to all the DSC sensors.

6

Hello huogas,

The main reason I have my DSC connected to Vera, is that my girl or I have left the house at times & we could not remember if we armed the house. This results on driving back to check on it or if we are too far, having in our minds “is the house safe!” Granted I love the added bonuses now, I went to bed & didn’t set the alarm. I went on my phone & armed my alarm from my bed. :slight_smile: That alone was worth all the time & money!!

I have worked with DSC panels for a while now & have installed quite a few in the past. The Power Series is what you want and the 1832 will do what you want, including Hybrid config (using hard wired & wireless together). Here’s a nicely priced kit with a custom keypad. As stated before, you want custom vs fixed. Custom will allow you to name each zone as Front Door vs Zone 1. I have ordered from them before & they are great to work with. Note: I would replace the 12V 4Ah battery with a 12V 8Ah battery. That will give you longer backup runtime.

DSC Power 1832 Security Kit $179.50
[url=http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-549-kit32-51-dsc-power-1832-security-kit.aspx]http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-549-kit32-51-dsc-power-1832-security-kit.aspx[/url]

DSC Wireless Receiver Module $54.95
[url=http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-1263-rf5132-433-dsc-wireless-receiver-module.aspx]http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-1263-rf5132-433-dsc-wireless-receiver-module.aspx[/url]

IT-100 - DSC Power Series Integration Module $65.00
[url=http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-1425-it-100-dsc-power-series-integration-module.aspx]http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-1425-it-100-dsc-power-series-integration-module.aspx[/url]

Get a box of 22/4 bell wire (solid with 4 wires colored red, green, yellow, & black), some motions, some door contacts & you are ready to go.

As for monitoring, I would have it done. I do & it’s a great peace of mind. If I loose power or any other problems the monitoring company calls me. Plus, most all monitoring companies can remote program your panel. That alone will save you time and programming headaches.

7

I would also, use the WIZnet Ethernet module vs a USB Serial adapter.

With the WIZnet you can run a CAT5 cable from your alarm panel & to your network switch/router.
No need to have your Vera in the same location as your alarm panel.
Easier installation.
Much cleaner installation look.

8

Nice write up…

[quote=“danb35, post:2, topic:167894”]Alarm systems like DSC are designed to be security systems, and to be monitored by a central station, who can dispatch the proper authorities in the event of trouble. If you’re concerned about home security, you’d be wise to consider an actual alarm system rather than try to make Vera do that.

To get a DSC system to talk to Vera, you’ll need an IT100 interface (for the alarm), and then either a USB-serial or Ethernet-serial adapter to connect to Vera.

In choosing between wired and wireless systems, there are advantages and disadvantages to each. Wired is less expensive, arguably more secure (since there’s no chance of anyone intercepting or spoofing signals from the sensors), and allows you to use any manufacturer’s sensors. Wireless is more expensive (especially for the sensors), quite a bit easier to install (since you don’t need to run wires from each sensor back to the control panel), and arguably more secure (since there aren’t wires going out to each sensor that an intruder might be able to tamper with).

There’s a third option, which is a hybrid system. In that case, you’ll have some wired sensors and some wireless. This allows you to wire the places that are easier to wire, but still have protection on the more difficult areas. AFAIK, all of DSC’s wired systems can be hybrid with the addition of an RF receiver (or an RF receiver/keypad).

When installing a security system, you want to protect every point of entry with a sensor–every exterior door, every window (at least on the ground floor). You’ll also probably want a couple of motion detectors, and may want a smoke/fire alarm or three. Each of those sensors should ideally take one “zone”. So, start by counting up how many zones you’ll need, and leave some room for expansion. You’ll need to buy a system that will support at least that many zones.

For wired systems, the DSC PC1832 is popular, inexpensive, and capable. It supports up to 32 zones. Out of the box, you can wire up to 8 zones, and you can add up to 3 zone expanders which support 8 zones each. You can also install an RF receiver to allow the use of wireless sensors. You will want at least one PK5500 keypad (NOT PK5501), because that gives a text display rather than giving you codes you have to look up to decipher. If you want wireless capabilities instead, get an RFK5500 keypad instead. Of the kits on the link you gave, I’d look at the KIT32219NT, or if you wanted a completely wireless system, the KIT4952.

If you’re concerned about the cost of professional monitoring, be aware that there are a number of central stations, at least in the U.S., who will monitor for around $10/month–you don’t need to pay $40+/month to ADT or the like.

There’s a lot to learn about home alarm systems, and I’ve barely scratched the surface. For a lot more information, check out Diyalarmforum.com is for sale | HugeDomains

9

Thanks to both of you, danb35 and ComputerJohn.
This thread is a real and good “crash course” for me. Very informative.

Still one question: the DSC PC1832 (plus communication gears) installed, the plugin working, will Vera get an access to all the sensors installed for the DSC (motion detector, etc) ?

Gast

10

Ok, I think I can now answer my own question. Based on readings, all sensors will be made available to Vera. I had another question asked in another thread about using TL150 (orTL250) to replace 2 interface modules:
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=3713.msg35712#msg35712

11

There is a plugin for GE and one for DSC.

Knowing that I don’t have any of these 2, and that I have to buy one, what should I consider in order to make my decision ?

Thanks

12

The TL-150 & TL-250 will not work with Vera at this time and have their limitations. There are apps in the Android market that will allow you to access a DSC only using the TL-150, without Vera.

[quote=“huogas, post:10, topic:167894”]Ok, I think I can now answer my own question. Based on readings, all sensors will be made available to Vera. I had another question asked in another thread about using TL150 (orTL250) to replace 2 interface modules:
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=3713.msg35712#msg35712[/quote]

13

Does everyone still agree that at this time the DSC Alarm system is the best way to go if you want to interface with Vera?
The feedback is great in helping all of us pick out the right hardware for our projects!
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts

14

[quote=“TimAlls, post:13, topic:167894”]Does everyone still agree that at this time the DSC Alarm system is the best way to go if you want to interface with Vera?
The feedback is great in helping all of us pick out the right hardware for our projects!
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts[/quote]

At this time there are 4x Panels that either have integration, or are in the process. These are as listed below, in alphabetical order. The choice is a bit of a mixed bag, depending upon what you’re looking for in terms of current state, “ownership” (maintenance) of the code, etc, etc. I’ve tried to remain as neutral as possible in the definitions, but some may be considered opinion

DSC

[ul][li]Developer: currently ownerless, I’ve been updating, will be ownerless again once I give test-panel back to @strangely[/li]
[li]Standardization: “v2” interface[/li]
[li]Connectivity: IT-100 Interface with either MiOS supported USB-Serial Adapter, or WIZnet type device[/li]
[li]Status: Production, Used only in tester’s homes, full source code published[/li]
[li]Comments: Readily available in the US[/li]
[li]Where: DSC Alarm Panel (Needs serious Doc revision)[/li][/ul]

Elk

[ul][li]Developer: mcvflorin[/li]
[li]Standardization: not quite “v2”[/li]
[li]Connectivity: Unknown[/li]
[li]Status: Alpha/In Development, full source code published[/li]
[li]Comments: Limited availability in the US, through specialized dealers[/li]
[li]Where: http://code.mios.com/trac/mios_elk-alarm-panel[/li][/ul]

GE Caddx Networkx

[ul][li]Developer: futzle[/li]
[li]Standardization: “v1” interface, being updated to “v2”[/li]
[li]Connectivity: NX-584 with either MiOS supported USB-Serial Adapter, or WIZnet type device[/li]
[li]Status: Production, used in Developer’s home, full source code published[/li]
[li]Comments: Readily available in the US[/li]
[li]Where: http://code.mios.com/trac/mios_caddxnx584[/li][/ul]

Paradox Systems “EVO” Series

[ul][li]Developer: me[/li]
[li]Standardization: “v1” interface, being updated to “v2”[/li]
[li]Connectivity: APR-PRT3 with native USB cable, or MiOS supported USB-Serial Adapter, or WIZnet type device[/li]
[li]Status: Production, used in Developer’s home, full source code published[/li]
[li]Comments: Limited availability in the US, through specialized dealers[/li]
[li]Where: http://code.mios.com/trac/mios_paradox-alarm[/li][/ul]

Corrections welcome.

Errors and omissions possible since I’m not 100% familiar with all devices listed.

Updated 5th July (current)

15

Guessed: very informative. Impressing!

Would it be possible to add one more line, another indicator about how easy the panel can be interfaced with Vera and the cost of interfacing it (~50$, ~100$, ~150$, ~200$,…) ?

As an example, to interface DSC, we need 2 steps: IT100 and WIZnet

16

More accurately, you need the IT100 and either WIZNet or a USB-Serial converter. The IT100 costs $65US at http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-1425-it-100-dsc-power-series-integration-module.aspx; the rest can vary.

Would love to see some support for Ademco–I’m buying a house that has a brand-new Ademco system installed. I understand, though, that the Ademco panel doesn’t support external access as easily.

17

Exact Danb35. Thanks for adding this information.

18

It’s a little hard to indicate that, since the prices are largely regional.

Also the choice of “WIZnet” or RS232 is largely a personal one. The GE, Paradox & DSC are all “RS232”, but can be adapted via WIZnet by those that need Ethernet connectivity. I don’t know enough about the Elk to comment.

I’m biased, since I direct-attach via the Paradox’s native USB connection, since my panel is right next to Vera in the closet. This avoids both the need for a USB-RS232 Dongle, as well as the WIZnet. For the DSC, I use a “wifi” adapter, but it has it’s issues… (see my last post about TCP connections in the SQRemote forum covering the GC100)

19

Now I am really curious!
Guessed, please tell us what the system is you are working on. I had no idea there were more options.
There are issues with the DSC plugin as you know.
Paradox System: Does it still work with SQ Remote? Is it still event based? EG with DSC the zones can be out of sync with the Vera if communication is lost…it just waits for an incoming serial event.
Tell us more!
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts

20

[quote=“TimAlls, post:19, topic:167894”]Now I am really curious!
Guessed, please tell us what the system is you are working on. I had no idea there were more options.
There are issues with the DSC plugin as you know.
Paradox System: Does it still work with SQ Remote? Is it still event based? EG with DSC the zones can be out of sync with the Vera if communication is lost…it just waits for an incoming serial event.
Tell us more!
Regards
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts[/quote]

I’ve hyperlinked the ones I know about in the table above to help folks.

In my house, I have a Paradox Security “DGP-848”, with ~20 zones or so. It’s compatible with the newer “EVO” models, and uses the same interface board (PRT3, per the table above)

This has been running for some time now (search forums history to get a sense) and since it’s the one I run in my house, it’s typically the one that gets fixed… mostly because I “live” with whatever issues it has, and so I get a sense of what needs to be fixed (etc)

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=2492.msg9997#msg9997

On my bench (if you can call it that) I have a DSC, that @strangely loaned me, that I’ve been using to prove out the Interface standardization effort, as well as generally re-write the code to [hopefully] provide better stability & functionality than the current version (from the MiOS Marketplace), since that developer no longer works for MiCasaVerde.

If there are problems with that, then please request an account (from @mcvovidiu) and file them specifically using the Bug tracking tool in:

  http://code.mios.com/trac/mios_dscalarmpanel

This tool is only available to people that login, so you won’t see it usually. I will try to fix as many core issues as possible, but at some point I do have to return the Panel to @strangely (as he bought it for a friend of his, I’m just borrowing it, and it’s probably like to get his $$ back). Right now, the folks “testing” this code are the real eyes-and-ears for problems in the DSC as I only have a “test” rig. Not the optimum way to develop, since I often cannot “feel” the problems that only occur in the real-world.

The DSC does read it’s Zone inputs at Startup, so could probably be convinced to re-read them when certain events occur (like long term IO disconnect, or even just a timed-event). To my knowledge, none of the other panels currently do that (including my Paradox) but it’s not out of the question if that is a REAL-World, frequent occurrence - although, then I’d be asking “why?” since I haven’t seen comms problems on mine in yrs, and it would seem that any comms path problem should be fixed first (although agree the code could be more resilient)

Part of the larger effort is to standardize the [MiOS] Interface used by all these panels. This thread is the background for that:
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=3713.0

The goal there is to make all the panels “look” the same to MiOS, such that the Control Point owners (SQRemote, Home Buddy, iVera, Automater.app etc, etc) have a consistent way of working with these Panels, no matter what the vendor.

We take for granted that this normalization/API standardization has taken place for Light Switches, Thermostats etc. In this case, we’ve done a first-cut at this for Alarm units so we can start to have the CP folks provide “standardized” (and complex) UI’s to cover these, display current state, permit Key-Pad entry of PIN’s for Disarming, along with other more interesting interactions.

In the meantime, yes, you can use things like SQRemote (I do) to show Zone status’s as well as Scene-Buttons for Arm/Stay/Disarm type events. Note that I don’t use it for Disarm, as that would require you to ‘store’ the PIN codes in Vera (in it’s Scene defn) so it could disarm the Panel, which I don’t tend to like. Typically Arming/Stay Arming modes don’t require that so these are easy.