[ol][li]That’s an ancient thread – over a year old as TC1 said. The issues were resolved somewhere around Oct 2013, IIRC, and you should be fine as long as you have firmware 5.8 or newer on the lock, as well as recent vera firmware (personally, I suggest sticking with UI5).
[/li]
[li]If the lock is not near the vera, you’ll need to use one or more z-wave devices that can relay the security protocols from the lock. While many (most??) z-wave devices can, there are some (generally older) ones that can’t.[/li][/ol]
I have a BE469, and I like it. I only know about one minor issue: while you can create triggers based upon when the lock is locked, there is no way of knowing if the lock was locked via the knob, key, or the outside Schlage button. Some people would like to know if the outside button was used.
FYI, the key and inside knob are mechanically the same, so no difference there. When i have more time, I’m going to pursue looking into the lock by keypad notification.
FYI, the key and inside knob are mechanically the same, so no difference there. When i have more time, I’m going to pursue looking into the lock by keypad notification.[/quote]
Well this it true to some extent. The kwikset has a trigger for the outside lock button. So hes saying the Schlage doesn’t.
Key opening from the outside or manual deadbolt on inside yes can’t tell the difference, no way around that. For me I don’t give out keys and I don’t even carry one myself. ( have more then one electronic deadbolt on house figure if one goes out I can go around to another, but hasn’t happened yet). So if someone forces it open yes it true to VERA is would look like someone opened it from the inside. Other then that I can tell if any of the following happen
Unlocked by a pin from outside,
Unlocked from the inside manual (or forced open by outside key hole)
Locked by the outside lock button
Locked by the inside manual (or forced locked by outside key hole)
Without giving out keys (pin numbers only) I think #3 alternative is unlikely to ever happen
Also without giving out a key #2 alternative is unlikely to happen and if someone brakes in alarm, cameras, and damage will be found so I guess if there was a robbery and door says it was unlocked from inside I’ll assume that was (wrong alert) the alternative and count that as a wrong alert. But we hope that never happens and if it does it should be so rare I won’t worry about the alert being wrong.
So 99% of the time you can tell which way someone is going and which side of the door they are standing on.
I have 12 Kwiksets. They all work fine. They are all constantly woken up by vera for various scenes of away, night, etc. The batteries in some last longer than others. I bought a battery charger and batteries from Amazon. The charger charges 16 at a time. This will definitely save me money over the next year.
I do also have a Baldwin deadbolt on my front door. Although the electronics are the same as teh Kwiksets, the hardware is undeniably heavier and higher quality…at a much higher price. That’s why Baldwin is only on my front door.
Are there any other premium locks you looked at? I’m considering a keyless Yale for a front deadbolt for my 1928 door. I don’t consider that model premium, but to me it’s a little nicer looking than most. Plus the keyless minimizes the size of the unit which might look better on my old door.
I’m irrationally bothered by the reduced size of the set of possible combinations on the kwikset, even though that design minimizes the keypad.
I’m not sure what you mean by the reduced size of possible combinations?
I think your assuming the number of buttons… If so
New Kwikset 913 vs. older 910 have a full 10 digit keypad now.
Also it was already posted (i’ll look for the post later) that since kwikset was capable of up to 8 digit pin length (which I’m not anal enough to use) that even though the number of buttons less there was actually more possible combinations. Then others with 4 digit and more buttons.
The reality was tho it still easier to pry the door open or pick the lock then to try the hundreds of possible combinations. And a wrong combination twice will leave the unit in a temporary few min. lock out to stall you even further if your just guessing at numbers. If the person enters the correct number he or she more then likely got it from you giving out, writing it down, using a phone number, address birthday or other not secure code.
Here is that info. It is several years old so if the other lock companies now support more then 4 digit codes then this would be mute… But like I said Kwikset has replaced their old lock with the 913 model now anyways.
[quote=“lz, post:29, topic:166542”]Kwikset allows setting 4 to 8 digit codes out of 5 buttons = 390,625 permutations.
Schlage allows setting 4 digit codes out of 10 buttons = 10,000 permutations.
Assuming that it is possible to enter a 4 digit code every 10 seconds = 10 codes/min = 10,000 codes/ 1,000 minutes = 10,000 codes/ 17 hours.
390,625 codes / 39062 minutes = 390,625 codes / 651 hours.
On Kwikset if you set 6 digit code the number of permutations is 15,625.
So if you loose a Schlage code, all you need is less than 17 hours to get in - so does the thief who hates braking things.[/quote]
Few things that I see flawed are the time it takes, like I said before wrong code multiple times locks you out for a few min. And total time it takes to try all of the codes assumes you don’t get the right code until you tried every one.
He does make a good point that even a 6 digit code still has more possible combinations then the 4 of the other brands.
A 6 or 8 digit code could be a repeated 3 or 4 digit code that doesn’t lower the security and first the person entering codes need to guess how many codes are even possible it could 4-8 digit long. So a thief could assume 4 and be trying thousands of 4 digit codes.
A crowbar, sledge hammer, a glass window or lock picking would all be a faster choice for me.
[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:31, topic:180976”][quote=“lz, post:29, topic:166542”]Kwikset allows setting 4 to 8 digit codes out of 5 buttons = 390,625 permutations.
Schlage allows setting 4 digit codes out of 10 buttons = 10,000 permutations.[/quote][/quote]
I don’t know if this info is old, wrong, or for the wrong lock, but this isn’t true for the BE469. The BE469 supports codes of 4-8 digits, and you can have up to 30 codes. Users’s guide can be found here: Contact us | Schlage Door Locks Customer Support
Probley just old as I stated. Even the 5 digit buttons on the kwikset are no more or outdated.
Really I’m not even sure if that’s where the orginal poster was even going with that. The point was it shouldn’t be an issue. I don’t feel the pin code is the weak link in any lock or house for that matter. Much easier and faster for me to get in any of the other ways I mentioned.
[quote=“TC1, post:32, topic:180976”]FYI, the new Kwiksets are still only grade 2 certified security locks (physical security). The Schlages are Grade 1.
Multiple Schlages in my house (both electronic and physical locks), work just fine, great customer service.
-TC[/quote]
Good to know, but doesn’t worry me. I think most of that rating has to do with lock picking and just a small bit of physical strength. Which I think the strength weakness comes more down on the door and door frame, ie… how easily can it be kicked or prayed open. When police need to force enter a residence I have yet to see them determine the best way (fastest and easiest) to enter is by picking a lock or guessing a code.
Statistic’s of home invasions don’t show lock picking or code related either. 2/3 are forced entry mostly threw windows or sliding doors with a few crowbars (door frame and door most important) and 1/3 are threw already opened or unlocked doors and windows.
This doesn’t even account for knock knock burglars and the like preying on elderly.
Bottom line looks, features, reliability (which I think most have been ok) and price matter more to me.
I only ended up with my 910’s because I pay 80.00 for them. If I had to spend 220.00 plus I would be looking at all my options. I’m no way stuck on Kwikset’s even tho I haven’t had a problem with them, right now it’s mostly a price thing.
[quote=“dzmiller, post:36, topic:180976”]Lowes in the US has the Schlage BE369NX for $129. It looks similar to the kwikset 913. Both have one number per button.
Is there any downside to buttons over the fancier keypad type?[/quote]
Note that this is not a motorized deadbolt, but is a manually-operated one. Normally, the outside “knob” is free-spinning (does nothing to the deadbolt). When the lock activates, a clutch is activated, and turning the knob will now move the deadbolt. You have something like ~5 seconds (I’m guessing) to turn the knob before the clutch disengages.
I have the older, non-z-wave version of the lock, and I generally like it. However, one quirk is that the key operation is different from traditional deadbolts. To unlock via the key, you have to hold the knob, insert the key, and turn the key 90 degrees until the key cylinder can be pushed inwards (maybe 1/8"). This manually engages the clutch, and you can then turn the knob (while the key is in this position), which then moves the deadbolt. It’s unexpected, and can be slightly tricky for anyone not expecting it. We have ours installed on an inside door, going from the garage to the home, and it’s nice. We almost never use the key on that door.
Yea as stated, if you left your house and the door was unlocked, you could not lock it from away. The Deadbolt doesn’t move electronically in or out (which is a battery saver).