Zwave costs in Australia ... There must be a better way?!?!?

Other Devices & Integrations Lighting & Load Control
#1

Am I alone in being frustrated with the cost of Zwave devices in Australia, particularly when it comes to switching loads above 650watts?

I’ve spent a small fortune on Aeon and Fibaro devices and got most of the house covered but I’ve still got a way to go. Fibaro seem to be the only option for higher load devices with their 1.5kw and 3kw switches, has anyone found any other reasonably priced options?

I don’t really understand why the manufacturers aren’t building devices that support larger loads at a reasonable price.

I’ve got so frustrated with it I’ve decided to build my own controller for the bathroom.

It supports eight switches with up 40 amp loads (which is overkill I suspect but I thought it best to err on the right side!) and also includes a four normally closed security sensors inputs (for the door, motion and windows), a couple of temperature sensors, humidity and lightlevel. With this I can control my Tastic (Fan, two heat lamps and light), vanity light, heater, the powerpoint that the hairdryer and straightening wand use (which my better half regularly leaves on) and a little audio amp with bluetooth, radio and auxiliary input. I’m currently working on adding an IR blaster to it to control the little audio amp and any other IR devices. So far it has cost me less than $300 which is a lot less than it would have cost me to switch the eight loads, let alone monitor temperature, humidity and light. It isn’t a zWave device, my current version has a hard wired ethernet connection but I’ve started work on a WIFI version. I’m new to Vera coding and having been 20 years since I cut code, I’m pretty rusty but I’ve managed to put together device files to make it all usable in Vera.

Has anyone else gone down this path?

#2

Kinda…have you seen mysensors?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

#3

[quote=“gregl, post:2, topic:187794”]Kinda…have you seen mysensors?
Mysensors.org[/quote]

Thanks Greg,
I did discover mySensors a little late, having looked at it I’m thinking about changing my device so it fits with the mySensors architecture but haven’t got to it yet.

#4

I am waiting to see what Qubino are going to bring to the market and their pricing as compared to current products.

#5

Looks interesting Brientim but if http://www.qubino.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=56 is anything to go by it looks there pricing is going to be as high as other Australian suppliers, lets hope not! Good to see they are using higher capacity OMROM relays and have a decent momentary switch range though!

Maybe OOMI will be the answer!

#6

OOMI is an interesting beast and let’s see what is brings because as the article indicates it based on Aeotec OEM services and equipment.

http://z-wavealliance.org/aeotec-helps-make-crowdfunding-history/

There was a recent post about Qubino http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,32512.msg237423.html#msg237423

#7

@Reliance - In fairness, I don’t think that your custom switch is a reasonable comparison to the typical Z-Wave switch. But, you may also be comparing dimmers to switches. Most switches and relays that I have seen are in the 1,800 watt range. The 650 watt limited devices are typically dimmers and that limit is due largely to heat dissipation within the confines of small gang boxes.

I feel that prices are unjustifiably high everywhere. It may be due to early manufacturing and development, niche market, lack of competition, and who knows what else. It is likely a combination of several of these factors.

While not helpful for you, prices in the U.S. have dipped noticeably recently. This is definitely a result of increased competition. More sellers and more high volume sellers have introduced much needed competition. Despite this, prices are still probably three fold what they should be and I would expect them to keep trending down for the next few years as economies of scale, as well as competition, continue to apply downward pressure.

I will say that crowd funded startups are the least likely to bring cheap products to market. I would definitely not hang my hat on Oomi.

#8

[quote=“Z-Waver, post:7, topic:187794”]@Reliance - In fairness, I don’t think that your custom switch is a reasonable comparison to the typical Z-Wave switch. But, you may also be comparing dimmers to switches. Most switches and relays that I have seen are in the 1,800 watt range. The 650 watt limited devices are typically dimmers and that limit is due largely to heat dissipation within the confines of small gang boxes.

I feel that prices are unjustifiably high everywhere. It may be due to early manufacturing and development, niche market, lack of competition, and who knows what else. It is likely a combination of several of these factors.

While not helpful for you, prices in the U.S. have dipped noticeably recently. This is definitely a result of increased competition. More sellers and more high volume sellers have introduced much needed competition. Despite this, prices are still probably three fold what they should be and I would expect them to keep trending down for the next few years as economies of scale, as well as competition, continue to apply downward pressure.

I will say that crowd funded startups are the least likely to bring cheap products to market. I would definitely not hang my hat on Oomi.[/quote]

I appreciate that my solution isn’t directly comparable to Z-Wave devices but for me it was about cost and dong the job, in my case the capability of switching multiple devices including heating and a four point power point which are above the 1800 watt limit (and you are right again, I had mistakenly referenced dimmer specs) . To achieve the same switching capacity with zWave in Australia I would have spent well over $500 and that still wouldn’t have provided the four security sensors, temperature, humidity, light sensors and streaming audio system. Had I added them using zWave I would probably have had to use Fibaro universal sensors which are over $100 here making my total cost closer to $1000 and I’d still need to buy a Sonos or similar to get the Audio.

I guess I’ve also been influenced by other factors including the fact that in my case, my Z-Wave network isn’t reliably fast, looking at LUA logs it often seems to take multiple retries to achieve switching, a result of regular network CAN’s which kill the network for a second (often repeatedly so a second turns into 10). I’ve tried hard to conquer that and have had a support call open bouncing back and forth for over 4 months but the issues remain. With my approach I get reliable switching in milliseconds.

I am also keen to reduce the resolution of data going to Vera to improve overall performance. With my approach I can implement logic in my micro controller to implement more robust presence detection (the bee in the box approach) and only send messages to Vera to indicate Occupied / Unoccupied state rather than every trigger/untrigger of the motion detectors and door which in my experience (using the DSC plugin) kills Vera performance.

Let’s hope the market matures, competition heats up and Z-Wave costs come down!

#9

Gent’s, the biggest impediment to lower pricing is the high cost of the Zwave chip.

Factor in Lab Reports to the appropriate Standards, Compliance costs (major costs up to 10k per device), Currency fluctuations, Transport ( you have no idea how expensive it is to Freight to Australia, my eyes rolled when I costed a 70kg package of plastic bits from Euro to Aus. Oh, then on top you have AQIS Fees, Import Duty, GST etc. etc.
Oh, wow and we want to import into AUS, I should have my head read! :slight_smile:

The good news is that Qubino pricing should be similar to Euro pricing, we are still waiting on updated pricing for the Z wave+ devices but our fingers are crossed.

For the AUS Qubino followers, I was advised the morning that factory testing is nearly complete ( should be complete by the end of week), but then we find ourselves in Euro holiday season (more delays). Standards and Compliance Testing is expected to take anther 4 to 6 weeks. Only then the way is open to start production. First release on our domestic market (all going as expected) should now be September, 9 months over our expected release date, but we have Sigma Designs to thank for that.

Additional devices to the range will include a Flush 1 Relay (Dry/Isolated contact) which fills a empty slot in the marker. Other niche relay are being discussed as I write.

So guy’s please look at the overall picture when you consider the cost of niche devices in AUS, we have so many government & trade barriers that not only impede but escalate costs to the consumer.

Mike N

#10

Mike,

Other than the above stated challenges which equates to the final price, you have another significant barrier…

A compatible z-wave+ controller and that provide full functionality and greater ROI.

Because we are such a small market here, even MCV have not released an AUS z-wave+ controller and traditionally it is a while before they do. Reverse compatible support will have to do for the time being.

So hopefully there is movement on this front as well .

#11

[quote=“Brientim, post:10, topic:187794”]Mike,

Other than the above stated challenges which equates to the final price, you have another significant barrier…

A compatible z-wave+ controller and that provide full functionality and greater ROI.

Because we are such a small market here, even MCV have not released an AUS z-wave+ controller and traditionally it is a while before they do. Reverse compatible support will have to do for the time being.

So hopefully there is movement on this front as well .[/quote]

Although it is unlikely to be highly customisable and they are unlikely to release an API in the immediate future it looks like OOMI might be the first to market with a Z-Wave+ controller in Australia. Hopefully there will be some kind of interface to allow us to take advantage of it!

#12

http://thexuan.com Stackbox but only very limited numbers… However, no products available for AU region as yet…

#13

Hello @zedrally,

Just curious how did the factory testing go and it the schedule still looking good?

I’ll be looking some new switches soon…

#14

^^^

All going to schedule, I’m just hoping a gremlin doesn’t pop up it’s head up.

:slight_smile:

#15

Will the “Flush shutter DC” make an appearance? Control of DC motor polarity/reversal is a good one.

#16

I though the new Z-Wave chip was muti-market radio … just requires a software configuration. Much like newer mobile phones.
If so … then Edge should support the Australian marketplace with a minor configuration change.

On my edge in the /etc/cmh-zwfw

-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        161358 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.83_us.hex
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        161358 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.83_eu.hex
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32724 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.67_us.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32724 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.67_ru.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32724 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.67_in.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32724 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.67_eu.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32724 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.67_au.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32694 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.52_ru.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32694 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.52_in.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32768 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.20_us.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32768 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.20_eu.bin
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root         32768 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_3.20_au.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32768 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_2.78_us.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         32768 Jun 21 23:22 zwave_fw_2.78_eu.bin
#17

Richard your correct, but as far as I can establish it has not been certified for use in AU. And, until Qubino are released, there will be no end products on the market. First to market would be a significant achievement on an evolving market.

The previous reference to stackbox, all they released was a modified firmware for there total of 20 something sent to Oz.

#18

I’ll make the appropriate enquiry and repost.

They have a habit of making these announcements without actually having production finalised.

It’s our intention to add controllers as they become available in both Z Wave plus and local frequency.

#19

I had to go looking after Richards comment earlier

Below was the comment on Stackbox
For Z-Wave, if you see a ‘H’ on the green dongle it is an AU version. If you receive a white dongle it is also and Japan modified version of AU dongle.

#20

[quote=“a-lurker, post:15, topic:187794”]Will the “Flush shutter DC” make an appearance? Control of DC motor polarity/reversal is a good one.

[url=http://qubino.com/products-2/flush-shutter-dc/]http://qubino.com/products-2/flush-shutter-dc/[/url][/quote]

I can confirm that we will be importing the Flush DC shutter micro controller.