I have a vacation rental property that has central air-conditioning. The renters are not supposed to use the central A/C unless they pay extra for it.
I need to remotely administer the thermostat which is why the VeraLite Z-Wave controller is perfect for me. But I also need the thermostat to be able to be locked. Not physically locked in one of those clear lock boxes, because if the vacation renters pays for air-conditioning, then I need to enable the thermostat and allow them to push the temperature and cooling buttons whenever they want to turn on the A/C.
I also need to be able to set the temperature boundaries for cooling, say no lower than 68-degrees (no need for heating boundaries, I don’t have a heater system, just central air-conditioner).
I was looking at the Honeywell TH8320ZW1007/U thermostat but the screen lockout function appears to be able to overridden by the user pressing the System button and holding down the center blank button on the thermostat. I don’t want my vacation renters to be able override the thermstat.
Which Z-Wave thermostat would do what I want and is compatible with my VeraLite controller?
[quote=“scottkeen, post:1, topic:178858”]I have a vacation rental property that has central air-conditioning. The renters are not supposed to use the central A/C unless they pay extra for it.
I need to remotely administer the thermostat which is why the VeraLite Z-Wave controller is perfect for me. But I also need the thermostat to be able to be locked. Not physically locked in one of those clear lock boxes, because if the vacation renters pays for air-conditioning, then I need to enable the thermostat and allow them to push the temperature and cooling buttons whenever they want to turn on the A/C.
I also need to be able to set the temperature boundaries for cooling, say no lower than 68-degrees (no need for heating boundaries, I don’t have a heater system, just central air-conditioner).
I was looking at the Honeywell TH8320ZW1007/U thermostat but the screen lockout function appears to be able to overridden by the user pressing the System button and holding down the center blank button on the thermostat. I don’t want my vacation renters to be able override the thermstat.
Which Z-Wave thermostat would do what I want and is compatible with my VeraLite controller?[/quote]
While not a Z-Wave thermostat (uses wi-fi), the Ecobee has a Vera plugin, and it provides both the features you are looking for from their web portal at ecobee.com:
Heat and Cool Set Temp Ranges: this feature will allow you to configure limits on the heat set point temperature and/or cool set point temperature on the thermostat.
Access Control: This feature lets you set an access code for the thermostat. To enable an access code, simply enter a 4 digit number in the space provided. To disable this feature, simply delete the number. This section will also allow you to select which feature will require an access code on the thermostat. Restricting All access will allow the user to simply view the temperature and weather on the thermostat. In all cases when an access code is enabled, a user will be prompted to enter the code to access any of the options within the Setting menu (except the About menu).
The plugin will work with that model ecobee (should would with all models, but I have that particular one) and the VeraLite. When you get the VeraLite up and running, you can install the plugin from its UI (or from here: [url=http://apps.mios.com/plugin.php?id=3586]MiOS Apps).
And while I don’t want to discourage you from buying a Vera (I think they’re great), in your original post you didn’t mention a requirement that wouldn’t be met by just the Ecobee thermostat all by itself and the web portal provided by the vendor. Of course, if you wanted a long list of other possibilities for automation, notification or integration with other things (like door locks, motion sensors, light switches, etc.), then Vera would be the perfect addition. The Vera could also give you a central view over your own home, plus the web-enabled Ecobee in your rental property.
In either scenario, working wi-fi in your rental property is required.
watou
EDIT: I missed where you had said that you already had a Vera. Sorry for the confusion.
You are correct, the Wi-Fi capabilities of the ecobee Smart Si would be all I need to remotely manage it for my vacation rental. The integration with the VeraLite would just be a bonus for me, which I may not actually have a need for. Generally, the A/C will be off most of the time unless the renter pays extra for A/C.
However, I may get some window sensors, so that even if the renter does pay for the A/C, they still can’t turn it on unless all the windows are closed. That would be an integrated use of the ecobee and the Vera.
EDIT: I have a VeraLite already. I have it controlling 2 outdoor light switches and the front door deadbolt.
I think somewhere I read that your plugin will allow sending a message to the ecobee screen, such as “pay the rent!”
Is this a capability in your current plugin?
I would like to have a persistent message on the screen at all times, “A/C available for $nn/day” so the renters will get the message when they try to mess with the thermostat.
How would I implement this with your plugin? Can the message be persistent, always displayed?
I think somewhere I read that your plugin will allow sending a message to the ecobee screen, such as “pay the rent!”
Is this a capability in your current plugin?
I would like to have a persistent message on the screen at all times, “A/C available for $nn/day” so the renters will get the message when they try to mess with the thermostat.
How would I implement this with your plugin? Can the message be persistent, always displayed?[/quote]
Yes, from the Vera you can call an UPnP action SendMessage on the thermostat device, and it will send the text you supply to the thermostat’s display. (An example call is here: [url=http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,13836.msg121293.html#msg121293]http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,13836.msg121293.html#msg121293[/url]) However, the user can acknowledge the message at the thermostat with a button press. I don’t know if setting the four-digit access code will prevent the renter from acknowledging the message on the display, but if they do acknowledge the message, then maybe that’s a good thing?
You can use a PLEG plugin to override anything the user does including locking out the AC if they leave the doors or windows open.
Let them have their fun … then to make it really frustrating … change the setpoints back a minute or two later.
I do not know if you have a Phone with a fixed number at the home … but if you do you can also use the Twilio Interface (direct plugin or via Vera Alerts) and call the Phone and tell them they can pay a fee to upgrade their service level when you see someone messing with the thermostat.
On the ecobee thermostat, can the 4-digit access code be set and removed remotely? The manual refers to setting the code and removing the code from the unit itself. Since this will be used at a vacation rental, I need to set the code and remove the code remotely, or at least change the code remotely.
The code can be set and cleared from the web portal. Attached is a screen capture of that part of the web portal. (The Access Control info I posted earlier was in fact a copy/paste from the web portal’s online help.) Sorry I didn’t mention that earlier.
Awesome. This ecobee sounds like it will be perfect for my situation. With your plugin to send messages to the ecobee screen, that makes it even better. I wonder if I can set a recurring schedule of having a SendMessage sent every day at, say, 6:00am? If the renters don’t clear the message, will the messages start piling up?
Thanks for your help and letting me know about the ecobee. Gonna order one now.
[quote=“scottkeen, post:11, topic:178858”]Awesome. This ecobee sounds like it will be perfect for my situation. With your plugin to send messages to the ecobee screen, that makes it even better. I wonder if I can set a recurring schedule of having a SendMessage sent every day at, say, 6:00am? If the renters don’t clear the message, will the messages start piling up?
Thanks for your help and letting me know about the ecobee. Gonna order one now.[/quote]
The messages do pile up, and at present the plugin has no way of knowing that. But you could do something like automate on when the thermostat mode is set to CoolOn, run the code that sends the “AC available for $X/day” message to it. I’ve not done that exact sequence, but I can’t think of why that, or automating on a schedule or other triggers, wouldn’t work.
If the plugin has a way to send a “clear” message command (would a blank message do it?), then send the “A/C available for $/day” message right after that, then maybe the messages wouldn’t pile up. I’ll have to experiment with this when I get the ecobee. I just ordered it on Amazon, paid for 2-day shipping to Hawaii. Vacation renters are arriving Friday.
tough landlord! Comfort of air conditioning available for a fee… In Hawaii!
that will go over like a lead balloon
I’d take Richard’s advice and just sneakily reset it on them. They will get the message when they see it doesn’t hep to fuss with the settings. I do the same thing in my guest house. my wife’s cousins like to set the A/C to 62F!! I just set it back to ‘normal’ after 30 minutes. Let them cool it off a bit and then reel them back in.
Let us know if you manage to get away with an increased fee for the A/C. I will make a business of installing these systems for rental property owners. no joke.
No, it’s very common. Check the vacation rental listings for the Big Island of Hawaii on VRBO. Most owners charge $20 per day. Hawaii electric rates are the highest in the country – $0.43 per kWh, SIX times the national average. Your $250 electric bill on the mainland would be a whopping $1,500 electric bill per month in Hawaii!
Wrong. Again, most owners on VRBO charge $20 per day for A/C if they even offer A/C at all. Most homes don’t even have A/C because it costs too much to operate and the climate is mild, averaging about 72-75 degrees year-round. I also state upfront in my VRBO ad and in my rental agreement that A/C is optional and costs extra.
I prefer not to use the passive-aggressive approach. I prefer to be honest and upfront about it, which is why I state in my VRBO ad and in my rental agreement that A/C cost extra.
I’ll tell you right now. I have the next 2 months booked with vacation renters until late March. They’ve signed rental agreements, and it states that A/C is optional and costs extra. They have not told me that they want the A/C option, which they can ask for any time. I just need a system to manage it, which it sounds like the ecobee and Vera will do. So, despite your concerns that it’s a “lead balloon” or people won’t want to rent a property where A/C is optional, it’s a very common option in Hawaii, and I’m booked full until late March. Good luck with your new installation business for rental owners!
I live in South Florida and $250 electric bills are long in our rearview mirror too.
good luck and let us know how you progress it.
then, you should start a business setting these up, once you get yours going. You can charge homeowners a setup fee and a commission each time you sell the A/C.
[quote=“Bulldoglowell, post:16, topic:178858”]that’s Hawaii, I guess.
I live in South Florida and $250 electric bills are long in our rearview mirror too.
good luck and let us know how you progress it.
then, you should start a business setting these up, once you get yours going. You can charge homeowners a setup fee and a commission each time you sell the A/C.[/quote]
$0.43 per kWh is another one of those “cost of paradise” that I keep hearing. So is gas for $4.59 per gallon.
What is your electric rate in Florida? When I left northern Virginia in 2007, the rate was $0.06 per kWh there. My first electric bill I got in Hawaii sent me into a panic, shutting off lights and yanking power adapters out of wall sockets. After 6 years of this, I’ve finally plunked down $10,000 (after federal and state subsidies) to have a 500 kWh/month solar photovoltaic system installed. It covers half of my 1,000 kWh/month usage and it’s a total no-brainer for Hawaii (you break even in 4 years). I figure vacation renters will put me upwards of 1,300-1,600 kWh/month (I rent out the upstairs of my house as a vacation rental, I live downstairs).
Most homes (probably 95%) don’t have thermostats or central A/C. I have one of the few homes that was built with central AC. Wouldn’t be much business for a thermostat installer over here. You’d do much better installing solar panels. I may offer some home-automation stuff, since it’s up my alley with network and computer consulting which I do here now. The ecobee just became a business expense!
Just got the ecobee SmartSi and went to install it for my central A/C.
Unfortunately, I only have 3 wires and from what I read, the ecobee requires 5 wires. There’s no other wires in the wiring sheath, just the 3 wires: red, white, green.
The old Honeywell thermostat worked fine with just 3 wires, but I guess that’s because it’s powered by a pair of AA batteries.
See attached photo.
I’m not sure what to do next. I guess I need to return this.
[quote=“scottkeen, post:18, topic:178858”]Just got the ecobee SmartSi and went to install it for my central A/C.
Unfortunately, I only have 3 wires and from what I read, the ecobee requires 5 wires. There’s no other wires in the wiring sheath, just the 3 wires: red, white, green.
The old Honeywell thermostat worked fine with just 3 wires, but I guess that’s because it’s powered by a pair of AA batteries.
See attached photo.
I’m not sure what to do next. I guess I need to return this.[/quote]
I think the Ecobee needs the C wire to provide a constant 24VAC. There might be someone here on the forum who has a suggestion about how to work around the issue. It may be possible to add a 24VAC transformer to the mix, but I am not enough of an HVAC guy to have good advice on that. I know there are people around here who are.
Thanks I’m reading up on the Power Extender from ecobee. Sounds like I need to get power on C from the air-handler. The problem is that I don’t have any more wires, so I would need to crawl up in the attic and run another cable to the thermostat from the air-handler.
If I have to use a wall-plug transformer to power the ecobee, well, the nearest wall outlet is about 15 feet away and it would be pretty ugly running a cable up the wall to the ecobee. No, I think the cleanest way to do this is to run another wire from the air-handler to the ecobee for power.