Vera3 wifi a real disappointment [Not anymore]

OK, so I tried to cancel my upgrade order, but things moved very slow at mios, so it ended up at my doorstep anyway.

Anyway, I decided to connect it up, as I already had it. Basically, wifi is a mess. At least with the default settings.

The one thing that I miss the most, is that I can no longer control my Sonos system using the Vera3 wifi network. Can this be normal??
I have tried all combinations of network settings on the wifi tab, but still it does not seam to work.

If there’s no solution to this (and the other ‘Vera 3 as a switch’ issues, which I guess is related), my view is that Vera3 wifi is broken ???

I guess the only solution to this, is to make Vera3 the ‘main router’ and have the other routers and AP’s after Vera3. But how can one have Vera3 as main router if there’s no way (?) of configuring the firewall? I mean port routing and port management in general.

I must be missing something here. Some clue how it is intended to work.

I have ‘WAN’ port connected to my main network. I tried to connect WAN to vera LAN port, and another LAN port to my main network, but that did not work at all. Should I try something else?

I personally would not want to use vera as a router. Let it do its job of home control. I turned off all wifi. Mine is setup as auto with DHCP and wifi turned off. The wan port is plugged into my router.

I have a complicated wifi setup with multiple ip cams, a bridge extender, 2 xboxes, and tons of devices including a NAS, camera dvr pc, and synology. Believe it or not, the xboxes are the hardest to get to work on the same network with open NAT.

For what it’s worth, the Dlink DIR-857 is my current router and it is the best I’ve owned. I have to leave UPNP on for the xboxes, but it is fast and just works great. I have an 8 port switch chained off it for vera, NAS, DVR.

I need to know more about how your network is set up and what you have/need to connect but in my case I have a Main router (an ASUS top of the line Gigabit router). I have a FIOS router that “needs” to be online for Verizon to pretend to manage it. I plug the WAN port of the FIOS router into a LAN port of the the good router. When the FIOS router comes on line the ASUS issues a DHCP address to the FIOS router’s WAN port. I then set that address as the DMZ address in the ASUS. This makes the FIOS router appear as it is sitting on the internet connection all by itself. Granted the vera doesn’t care if it’s wide open to the internet or not, but you could still do the same thing. If you enabled WiFI on the vera, you could actually have 2 separate WiFi networks. One for your PC’s and other regular wifi devices and one for all your security and home automation WiFi devices, if you have any. You can also just shut it off like Intrepid.

Well, I have a fairly simple network set-up.

I’m connected to the fiber network of my city, so a fiber enters my house, into a tp converter box with 8 100 mbit outputs.

From that I have connected one IPTV box and two routers; one separate router for a small apartment that I rent out (totally separate from my house network, so we can just ignore that one).
The other router, a Netgear WNDR3700, is my main router, and has both 2,4G and 5G WLAN, and gigabit on LAN/WAN. This one does port routing to my linux server, and a VoIP phone. Nothing fancy. Then from there on to gigabit switches and a PoE+ switch powering the access control system and some cameras and the Vera.

My linux server does DHCP, DNS and NTP for my LAN and the WLAN on the WNDR3700.

On the LAN, I also have other devices such as the Sonos players.

Prior to the Vera3 arriving, I had my Vera2 as a second WLAN AP to get good WLAN coverage in the house. The Vera2 wlan devices also got DHCP from my linux box.

Everything was great. My android phones/tablets and portable computers could connect to any of the two devices as needed. All devices where on the same subnet. The Sonos app and widgets on the portable devices worked regardless where I was in the house. As one would expect.

Enter Vera3.
First of all, when I read the thread ‘Vera as a bridge’ I realized that this is not what I wanted, hence my cancellation request to mios.
But as it arrived, I figured that I could probably live with the shortcomings if I rearranged my wireless devices (cameras and itach IR transmitter), so they would connect onto my WNDR3700, even if they where ‘on the edge’ range-wise.

So I upgraded to the Vera3 (went smooth), and simply substituted the Vera2 with the Vera3 (I have a great position for it in the middle of the house, in a in-wall-built cupboard so z-wave coverage is optimal). The Vera is powered using a PoE splitter to make less cabling. Nothing is connected onto the LAN of the Vera.

So now I intend to only use the Vera3 for portable devices which are not servers. Like laptops, Asus TF Prime and smartphones. But when I do, Sonos does not work any more. That is, the apps does not connect to the Sonos players anymore when the phones (etc) are connected to the Vera3. Everything else works on the phones (skype, internet browsing, spotify and watching videos on my linux box.
But since controllng the Sonos is one of the most important thing that one can do with a wireless device in my house, it is a show stopper if this does not work. I guess it is some uPnP routing issue on the Vera3?

Which is why was thinking about how mios where actually thinking when they took away the both the AP (bridge) functionality and the router configuration.
Since it cannot bridge therefore cannot be a true access point, one needs to put it first in the line of routers in order to get all devices on the same subnet. And then one have the option of enabling the built in firewall which cannot be controlled, or leave all wireless devices totally open from the internet side. I must be missing something… !

As there are talks about gigabit internet access in my area right now, I’d rather not use the Vera as my main router, since it only has 100mbit on its interfaces, but if there’s a way of configuring the firewall with port mapping, maybe I could live with only 100mbit internet when my neighbors gets gigabit. :slight_smile:

I’m not using my Vera2 for Wifi or DHCp either. I have a Linksys E1000 with DD-WRT for an N WifI AP and an older Belkin G unit for a G AP (As it appears when you connect a G deivice, the N devices connected get slower) DHCP et all is handled by my BSD server.

I’m contemplating the Vera3 upgrade as I plan to get some IP camera’s. Having a Vera with WiFi means I canconfigure a seperate WiFi SSID/subnet for connecting only the camera’s.

Do you have Verizon STBs? If not, you can ditch the Verizon router and go ethernet from the ONT.
If yes, you need to have something to bridge the internet to the Verizon STBs via MoCa, but the Verizon router doesn’t have to be first in line. However, if you want to use remote scheduling, etc. then I think it does need to be first.

I have FiOS with CableCards (in TiVos) and ditched the Verizon router immediately.

You may already know about this, but I am posting the following for completeness. Anyone with FiOS that wants to alter their network configuration can look at the following links for more information:
General FAQ
What are the tradeoffs between the various router configurations?

But… Since Vera3 will not let you access the cameras (NAT on wifi), how would this be useful? Or are you only intending to access the cameras through Vera?

[quote=“vespaman, post:4, topic:172361”]Enter Vera3.
First of all, when I read the thread ‘Vera as a bridge’ I realized that this is not what I wanted,[/quote]

Can you link to this thread? Can’t find it.

Do you have Verizon STBs? If not, you can ditch the Verizon router and go ethernet from the ONT.
If yes, you need to have something to bridge the internet to the Verizon STBs via MoCa, but the Verizon router doesn’t have to be first in line. However, if you want to use remote scheduling, etc. then I think it does need to be first.

I have FiOS with CableCards (in TiVos) and ditched the Verizon router immediately.

You may already know about this, but I am posting the following for completeness. Anyone with FiOS that wants to alter their network configuration can look at the following links for more information:
General FAQ
What are the tradeoffs between the various router configurations?[/quote]

I am doing Ethernet to the ONT. You are exactly right. It’s the remote DVR control that is the issue. I’m trying to see if putting the FIOS router on the DMZ will overcome that. Not sure yet,

[quote=“Intrepid, post:8, topic:172361”][quote=“vespaman, post:4, topic:172361”]Enter Vera3.
First of all, when I read the thread ‘Vera as a bridge’ I realized that this is not what I wanted,[/quote]

Can you link to this thread? Can’t find it.[/quote]

I understand that you could not find it, since i got the subject wrong… :-[

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,11220.0.html

@vespaman, I have to agree with @Intrepid here. I wouldn’t use my Vera as an access point either. I also have a fairly complicated wifi setup (and one that changes fairly regularly as I can’t leave well enough alone!). I know it is frustrating to have a piece of hardware that should be able to work exactly how you want it and yet it doesn’t, but in this case I think the 3W of power and the $20 for a second router are well worth it in terms of your personal time.

I own about a dozen wifi access points (most are spares that are not currently connected), but I buy also buy a lot of wireless routers that run openwrt in the ~$10 range to give away to friends and family. I’ve gotten very good at flashing and configuring routers. I am “sysadmin” for quite a lot of people so it is well worth it to me to give out free hardware and know that when their wifi setup breaks I can log in and fix things remotely.

Anyway, the point is you could get an inexpensive router that runs OpenWRT and set it up exactly as you want. I normally try to stick to only one company’s chipsets (broadcom or atheros) at the same time so I can use WDS:

I think I probably take a minor hit in BW but having the Mac addresses propagate across my network where they wouldn’t in a traditional bridge makes it worthwhile for me. Right now I’m using two Netgear wrt2000v1 and two D-Link DIR-601-A1 (atheros) routers. Again, these were between $10-15 shipped each. You can find a compatible router for $20 shipped any time, and the $10-15 deals pop up a maybe once a week.

radarengineer,
I hear - and appreciate - what you are saying, and I agree that it is probably easier to get yet another box to do wifi for me. But that would mean an awful lot of wiring, or adding also a switch in that place where I have the Vera. Call me stubborn, but having three boxes doing what the Vera2 did easily, and the Vera3 should do even easier is plain silly. Not sure the three devices can work on the same PoE (or even a second AP).
I also think it is false advertising from mios side, if the wifi is in fact unusable in such a simple set-up.
If it is not expected to work, or indeed never intended to, then this should be made very clear to the customers (and I am surprised that you guys that have never intended to use the wifi did not go for the Vera Lite instead. But maybe you need the RAM).

As this thread has been rolling through the week-end, I hope mios will respond on how they see this in the coming days, maybe this issue with Sonos is a known issue which they have already fixed. I certainly hope so, because otherwise I will have to return the Vera 3 and seek for another manufacturer, one which I can trust. That would be a shame, because the Vera 2 UI4 has been good to me, and I would certainly miss this great community.
Currently I installed the Vera2 back again, to get Sonos working again, but it is dog-slow in UI5.

If, for nothing else, someone with a Sonos system see this thread, and are contemplating a Vera3 using its wifi, just know that it currently does not work. Also, if someone using the Vera2 wifi and are contemplating a Vera3 upgrade, know that it will necessarily/probably not work as a direct replacement.

Cheers,
Micael

But… Since Vera3 will not let you access the cameras (NAT on wifi), how would this be useful? Or are you only intending to access the cameras through Vera?[/quote]

NAT would not be an issue as that is handled by my Unix server which is also the gateway/firewall. A simple port forward will take care of that pointing camera ports to Vera’s IP/ports.

I still remain unconvinced that the Vera 3 hardware can’t act as a proper bridging access point. But without a unit of my own (Sorry, smarthome, I probably won’t be trading in my Vera 2) I can’t tinker with the OpenWrt networking commands. Does anyone want to be my proxy tinkerer? I need someone with a Vera 3 wired to the LAN through the Vera’s WAN port, wants to use Vera’s WI-Fi to join wireless devices to their LAN, and can run shell commands (including editing files).

I’d love to. But, alas, I only have a vera lite. Had I realized all the stuff I could do, I would have bought a Vera 3.

Well, I just wanted to make sure you knew that it wouldn’t be hard or expensive to do this without the Vera. But if you know your options and you really want to get it running through the Vera, I can understand that. My Vera arrives soon (tomorrow I hope!) and I’ll log in to the command prompt and see what I can figure out.

If nothing else I would think we could get it working as a pseudobridge with relayd:

http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/recipes/relayclient

Why do you use the WAN-port, if you just want the WiFi? I dont have the Vera3, only Lite, but I suppose it work as most normal routers. Just config the LAN-side with ip-adress in your normal net so you can access it, and disable any service in you don’t need like DHCP. Then connect one switch-port to your network.

HaPe,

I tried that, but that did not work at all. Maybe I did something wrong, but I think that the default route is towards WAN regardless. But I don’t mind trying that as well. Do you have any suggestions about the settnings on the WAN side? DHCP perhaps, and then let it time out on boot (since no cable inserted). Or should I set the WAN address to something completely ‘off’? Leaving mask and gw to point to my main gw, and hope that Vera routes to the other interface?

I have tried so many combinations right now, that my mind is spinning. Now, in addition to having problem with my Sonos, it seams to be issues with connecting to my Samba server as well! ???
I’m not going to do much changes right now, since support @ mios are looking into this, and I don’t want to mess the Vera3 up too much… :slight_smile:

Everything that connects via the WiFi should get their ip-adress and gateway from your normal router, if you have disabled the DHCP server in the Vera so that shouldn’t be a problem and have them connected at the LAN-side.

OK, I tried this, and … It actually works pretty well: Sonos works, and I can access my Samba server from wifi, and I can surf the web on my mobile devices.

However Vera3 itself does not know how to reach internet.

Do you have any suggestion how to solve that?

I have now the following settings:

Firewall off

WAN (disconnected)
Static IP 10.1.202.3
Netmask 255.255.255.0
Gateway 10.1.200.2 ← My main router ip
DNS 10.1.200.8 ← My linux DNS server

LAN (connected to my LAN)
Static IP 10.1.200.3
DHCP srv off.
Netmask 255.255.255.0