Using X10 Devices with Vera

Community Playground General Discussions
1

X10: LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL

With the upcoming release of new firmware for Vera, which is expected to include X10 interoperability via an Insteon PLM (modem), I want to get ahead of the game slightly by starting this thread for the following users and reasons:

  1. Those of us who own (and wish to implement) lots of X10 modules and accessories
  2. Those of us who are migrating from existing X10 installations to Z-Wave systems
  3. Hobbyists who are not afraid to test experimental/new hardware configurations
  4. Z-Wave / ZigBee newbies who want/need X10 compatibility before purchasing Vera
  5. Itinerant beta testers who can’t wait to pound on Vera’s new-found X10 functionality
  6. Frustrated and former X10 users who gave up on home automation due to the continual failure by hardware manufacturers to (a) eliminate complexity, (b) support their products, (c) update firmware and software, (d) respond to consumers, (e) remain in business.

Disclaimer: I fall into all six categories, but think #6 describes me best, as I steadily dismantled my home’s X10 system after my trusty GE HomeMinder (vintage 1986) died, and later experiences with a CM11A and its ActiveHome software left me wanting so much more.

THE X10 DREAM, RENEWED?

I figure I can’t be the only one with drawers full of X10 interfaces, remotes, modules, transceivers and controllers … just aching to put some of them back into service! Sure, I lived through the “1.0” times when all home automation was hard-coded and regimented, and all hardware was single-purpose. Back then, Radio Shack was our best friend and product failure/obsolescence was commonplace.

I plodded along happily with the advent of X10.com and SmartHome in the “2.0” days, when HAI, HomeSeer and other promising upstarts came along to round out our expectations of what’s possible using flexible firmware and enhanced interfaces. Entire hobbyist communities rallied around the concept of home automation as “integral” rather than “afterthought.”

WELCOME TO MI CASA

Now, we’re clearly living in “3.0” times, when folks like Mi Casa Verde - recognizing the power of open source architectures and the synergy created from robust user feedback - can build a sensible home automation system from the ground up using the latest technology, offer it at a reasonable price, and (at least on paper) go forward with a very audacious game plan. But companies like MCV face a chicken-and-egg conundrum the same way Z-Wave technology - its very soul - does: Which comes first, the users or the products? That is, the presence of a need (e.g. home automation) does not guarantee the success of any solution (e.g. Vera), because today’s savvy users are fickle, margins are incredibly slim, and expectations so incredibly high that developers can easily be derailed both fiscally and philosophically.

(For a seminal example of a product, which offered such promise on the drawing board, being doomed by limited investment capital and later crippled by wayward development and too-slow adoption in the real world, just Google “Dash Express GPS”.)

The minds at MCV have wisely chosen as “sustainable” a platform as possible with Vera, giving her a brain and a heart, leaving the guts and sinew time to flesh out over time with the help and guidance of avid users and early adopters. Us! At the same time, Vera is so extensible and flexible that countless alternative uses - a good portion of which may wind up dead ends - will be considered by MCV. Just look at all the items already on users’ wish lists! And I believe, thus far, MCV has shown admirable resolve to “finish what we’ve started” before embarking on the more esoteric features being suggested. They’ve even gone so far as to place cash bounties on new coded plug-ins, effectively telling co-developers, “You want it? You make it!”

ENTER X10

Every time a new home automation technology sprouts up, it is expected to grow into a superset of all prior technologies. Since the advent of electricity - when skeptics asked, “Will it light like an oil lamp?” - each innovation is greeted with a checklist to assure nothing got left behind in the name of progress. Over the last 100 years, we’ve grafted clocks onto toasters, photocells onto lamps, CRTs onto keyboards, triacs onto light switches, buzzers onto washing machines, and LEDs onto clocks … and now we’re hoping Z-Wave can be grafted onto X10 to “make it better” and breathe new life into a stale technology.

If this upgrade is to succeed, we tinkerers need to adopt a methodical approach to testing our old equipment and providing feedback, thereby helping MCV iron out the kinks. Or else we risk throwing a very heavy anchor over the side of their brand-new canoe.

I hope this forum topic can be our “Home Base” for trying out X10 with Vera! If you’re like me, you can’t wait to dust off your old X10 gadgets and put them to the test. When you do, please report back here and let us all know how things turned out. THANKS! - Libra

2

I have to admit, I don’t have a single X-10 device but have always looked that direction out of the corner of my eye due to the wider variety of products. If nothing else, I enjoyed reading your post for the novel entertainment qualities!

3

Wow, what a post! Thanks!

I personally not a big X10 user - I took my few X10 modules to work where they are used to power-cycle dev boards when they lock up…

4

Ironically, Denix, there was a time when my X10 light switches failed so often that I built a little “test bench” just to diagnose troubled ones. No discussion of X10 is complete without a LOT of talk about how often modules failed - light switches in particular, which had a tendency to (a) stop responding to manual on/off, (b) stay on or off (regardless of control method), (c) come on or turn off unexpectedly, or (d) simply burn out.

I’d say the failure rate over time approached 40-50%!

Only a small subset of X10 light modules were dimmable, though someone kindly posted a “solder it yourself” schematic to make non-dimmable switches act dimmable.

5

Librasun,

Big X-10 user here about to get a Vera. I have X-10 lights, thermostat, chimes, motion sensors and an alarm interface. I cannot wait for X-10 support!

I’ll definately provide feedback. I hope the X-10 stuff will be two ways

I.E. Listen for B1 ON and send E1, E2, E3 ON, or similar. Then I can throw Homeseer away

6

Nice to know I’m not alone!

Oh, and when you throw your HomeSeer away, please place it in my trash can… I’ve always wanted to hold one. :slight_smile:

7

Just a reminder that only X10 controllers (and later enhanced X10 modules) generate ON/OFF/DIM commands, so Vera will forever be deaf to X10 light switches, lamp modules, etc., when they are operated manually.

But I’m psyched to think about re-using X10 motion sensors and other “active” components within a Vera network.

8

Ya I have a mixture of two-way and one-way x-10 switches. But I have a bunch of X-10 controllers which I use around the house to initiate macros. I.e. Living room TV mode which dims all the lights to a certain mode and powers the TV etc…so I definately hope the Vera can do that.

Homeseer - Very unstable…i’ve been using it for two years now and its very bloated…I only have the PC version not several thousand dollar appliance!

Any idea how long before the X-10 stuff is available? and what we need to purchase?

9

According to MCV, the forthcoming firmware update for Vera is due for release by mid-August, and will include interoperability with X10 and Insteon.

The type of hardware (“interface”) required will be an Insteon Power Line Modem (“PLM”) which plugs into a wall socket and has a USB connection for Vera to use.

Smarthome.com sells at least one suitable model, but MCV and SmartHome are ironing out the details as we speak, and the exact model will be announced shortly after Vera’s new firmware is released.

Hope this helps!

10

I realize MCV has been busy tidying up loose ends with the recent release of Luup firmware 862, but since it’s here and purports to have an Insteon/X10 plug-in available, I’d like to ask:

Has MCV decided which Vera-to-powerline interface is recommended for those seeking to tie Vera to an Insteon or X10 network?

I own the CM11A (serial) PLC (powerline controller), which is popular among enthusiasts who use it as an X10 device controller and fairly able scene processor, even as a stand-alone unit.

But Aaron suggested that Vera would require at least a PLM (powerline modem) for interfacing with Insteon and/or X10 devices, and I’m now curious which model would serve best for this purpose. Please also let us know whether it’s required for the PLM to be of the ‘USB’ variety (versus, say, an RS232 with a USB-to-serial adapter/cable).

THANKS!!

11

Vera does work with the 2412S and a USB->RS232 adapter. We’re confirming now that it works with the 2412U also. That confirmation should happen in the next few days.

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In that case, when I upgrade to Luup 862 or later, I plan to test my CM11A (with a USB-to-serial adapter cable) and determine whether Vera can “do X10” that way.

I realize you’re spec’ing a “modem” whereas the CM11A is a “controller”, but I’m not hip to the technical difference … and find it hard to shell out $70 for a 2412S (or 2412U) until I’m certain. ::slight_smile:

13

How about the 2414U ?

14

…or, for that matter, the X10-capable 1132CU?

I think the primary point MCV tried to make in an earlier message I read, is that only a PLM (“modem”) will do, and not a PLC (“controller”).

I guess those of us with existing X10 or Insteon equipment will want to try the out with Vera - just in case they work!! - before shelling out big bucks on newer interfaces.

If you have a 2414U and decide to test it, please let everyone know the results by posting them here.

15

Any info on how 862 will actually allow us to use X-10? I don’t see X-10 anywhere?

16

I’ve been assured there is - or soon will be - a Luup plug-in for this purpose, though I hhope this does not mean we X10 & Insteon enthusiasts are then left to figure out the details such as training the Luup plug-in how to control each and every powerline device ever sold!

17

???Hello!
What about the European users, We don’t have Insteon Power line modems.
Marcelo

18

Marcelo, what interface have you used (if any) to connect your computer to the powerline, when using X10? Or is your X10 system primarily controlled by a manual remote?

19

Actually I use the CM15A, but I have a old CM11A too.

20

Then, by all means, it’s time you tried it with Vera and see if she can communicate with the CM15A (once you’ve installed the Insteon/X10 Luup plug-in).

I have no specific guidance for you, but encourage this kind of testing.

If you would like specific steps (not yet published online), contact:
aaron (at) micasaverde (dot) com

I’m sure he’d like to hear from you, but don’t be surprised if his first reaction is “Oh, the CM15A won’t work.” My theory is that it just might work!

NOTE: My suspicion is that Vera may work best (or only) with a “modem” because it’s a dumb device, unlike controllers such as the CM11A and CM15A, which try to process X10 commands they receive. It might be helpful to erase the CM’s memory first before testing with Vera. Good luck!