Afternoon All, I’m about to wire up my LED tape lights for under counter lighting. If I did my math right, I will have a total of 82 Watts of LED tape lights and powered by a 96W LED Driver. Will that be sufficient? To get specific I plan to have one run of approximately 111" homerun to driver, then two 27" runs in a series that home run to driver (see attached). I know that it’s best to homerun everything to driver, but I was told if it’s just a 27" length i’ll be fine.
Thoughts?
The driver I’m using is this: https://www.magnitudeinc.com/media/SpecificationSheet/DC/24V/M96L24DC-AR.pdf
The LED tape lights are 96 Total wattage in a 16.5’ strip. (Picture says 16.5" but it’s feet)
This will be going back to a lutron zwave switch.
Any help is appreciated.
First question is why a dimmable power supply. That suggests that you will be trying to dim the LED’‘s by ‘dimming’ the 110V that will just reduce the 12V output which will not work for the LED’'s.
Second is that you have not got a lot of spare output in case of losses in the other wiring.
Thirdly, I would feed both ends of each run. This will help to prevent the far ends being dimmer than the ones near the supply. Just run two extra leads from the supply. One to each end.
[quote=“Slartibartfast”]First question is why a dimmable power supply. That suggests that you will be trying to dim the LED’‘s by ‘dimming’ the 110V that will just reduce the 12V output which will not work for the LED’'s.
Second is that you have not got a lot of spare output in case of losses in the other wiring.
Thirdly, I would feed both ends of each run. This will help to prevent the far ends being dimmer than the ones near the supply. Just run two extra leads from the supply. One to each end.[/quote]
I thought I needed a dimmable driver if I want the LED strip to dim? That is not the case? I should just get a non dimmable driver for this? The labeling is very mis informing.
I was thinking that I needed a dimmable supply to work w my dimmable zwave switch.
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[quote=“Slartibartfast”]First question is why a dimmable power supply. That suggests that you will be trying to dim the LED’‘s by ‘dimming’ the 110V that will just reduce the 12V output which will not work for the LED’'s.
Second is that you have not got a lot of spare output in case of losses in the other wiring.
Thirdly, I would feed both ends of each run. This will help to prevent the far ends being dimmer than the ones near the supply. Just run two extra leads from the supply. One to each end.[/quote]
Also regarding the wiring, the wall is already closed up to run separate leads for the 27" runs. What i can do is add a second power supply to power that side (once i figure out the power supply situation )
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Dimmable power supplies are for 12V tungsten type lamps where you drop the voltage to dim the lights. Standard 110/12V power supplies cannot work from a reduced supply so you need a dimmable supply.
LED tape works in a different way. You have a contact voltage but the controller uses pulse width modulation to dim the LED’s.
Reducing the voltage to the tape will cause the LED’S first to flicker and then go out.
To control LED tape from Vera you really need the Figaro RGBW controller.
If the wiring is already in you can hope for the best on brightness at each end of the tape.
[quote=“Slartibartfast”]Dimmable power supplies are for 12V tungsten type lamps where you drop the voltage to dim the lights. Standard 110/12V power supplies cannot work from a reduced supply so you need a dimmable supply.
LED tape works in a different way. You have a contact voltage but the controller uses pulse width modulation to dim the LED’s.
Reducing the voltage to the tape will cause the LED’S first to flicker and then go out.
To control LED tape from Vera you really need the Figaro RGBW controller.
If the wiring is already in you can hope for the best on brightness at each end of the tape.[/quote]
Thank you very helpful. So let me ask. If I were to get a regular non dimmable supply hooked to a dimmable zwave switch will that work? If so I’m assuming it doesn’t need to be a magnetic dimmable switch since my supply will be constant.
Thanks!
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A z-wave dimmer feeding a 110/12V power supply needs a dimmable power supply.
You cannot ‘dim’ the supply to LED tape. You need an LED tape controller which can dim the LED’s.
For example. I use a standard 240/12V power supply which feeds my Fibaro z-wave controller. The Fibaro controls the tape.
In my case the tape is RGBW so I can control colour and brightness…
You can keep the power supply and tape you have but you cannot change the brightness. You would need a z-wave switch rather than dimmer.
[quote=“Slartibartfast, post:7, topic:194267”]A z-wave dimmer feeding a 110/12V power supply needs a dimmable power supply.
You cannot ‘dim’ the supply to LED tape. You need an LED tape controller which can dim the LED’s.
For example. I use a standard 240/12V power supply which feeds my Fibaro z-wave controller. The Fibaro controls the tape.
In my case the tape is RGBW so I can control colour and brightness…
You can keep the power supply and tape you have but you cannot change the brightness. You would need a z-wave switch rather than dimmer.[/quote]
I’m confused… lol sorry… So for my RGB Tape lights I discovered what I think you were saying, I originally had them on a dimmable power supply but they flickered, I used a constant power supply w/ the Fibaro RGB controller and it worked perfectly. But I was told that in order to dim the under counter lights (single color) i needed a dimmable power supply.
…NOW with this setup, single color tape light, I was going with a dimmable power supply that will be connected to a DIMMABLE zwave switch under that countertop, are you saying that won’t work? Sorry, for not understanding, i’m trying to get it right before everything goes in, were in the middle of remodel and ready for lighting…
Z-wave dimmer to dimmable power supply will give reduced voltage to LED’s which will not work.
Ok, thanks, so I need to return the Dimmable Power Supplys for constant voltage power supply and let the ZWave dimmer switch do the work.
When I went to purchase these they told me I needed the dimmable driver and the specs stated it was LED: Indoor & Outdoor Magnetic Dimmable Class 2 LED Driver.
So for my own knowledge, when would one use a LED Dimmable Driver such as the one I purchased?
I don’t think you have it.
Dimming LED tape will not work without special controller such as the Fibaro.
A z-wave dimmer connected to any power supply will not work for dimming LED tape. It is the wrong technology.
Another Fibaro instead of the z-wave dimmer is your solution.
OR
keep the LED tape on full brightness.
[quote=“Slartibartfast, post:11, topic:194267”]I don’t think you have it.
Dimming LED tape will not work without special controller such as the Fibaro.
A z-wave dimmer connected to any power supply will not work for dimming LED tape. It is the wrong technology.
Another Fibaro instead of the z-wave dimmer is your solution.
OR
keep the LED tape on full brightness.[/quote]
No I don’t have it… It’s the technology that’s messing me up (aside from fact that I’m not understanding electrical basics). So I definiatly want to be able to Dim my undercounter lights. I bought the aforementioned low volatage magnetic dimmer and also a magnetic low voltage zwave dimmer from lutron. That won’t work if i’m now understanding correctly.
I want to be able to dim the counter lights via a dimmer switch next to my sink (hoping to make that zwave), so what do I need exactly?
It depends on what you can mount and where .
You need a dc power supply and (if you need to control dimming via z-wave) a Fibaro RGB. The Fibaro runs off the 12V supply so it needs to be after the power supply. The tape connects directly to the Fibaro.
You then need control switches. Hard wired is cheapest but if you could possibly use your existing z-wave dimmer to control via association or if it is instant status perhaps via scenes. I have not done hard wired or association control of the Fibaro as mine is in the attic for under eaves lighting.
Perhaps someone who has done this exact thing can chime in here with options.
[quote=“Slartibartfast”]It depends on what you can mount and where .
You need a dc power supply and (if you need to control dimming via z-wave) a Fibaro RGB. The Fibaro runs off the 12V supply so it needs to be after the power supply. The tape connects directly to the Fibaro.
You then need control switches. Hard wired is cheapest but if you could possibly use your existing z-wave dimmer to control via association or if it is instant status perhaps via scenes. I have not done hard wired or association control of the Fibaro as mine is in the attic for under eaves lighting.
Perhaps someone who has done this exact thing can chime in here with options.[/quote]
Wow. This was not what I was expecting. My LED strip is 24v. I was hoping to go switch - power supply - strip lights. Now seems like may be a little complicAted or over my head. I may just have to have a non zwave under counter lights. Damn. Thanks for heads up and info.
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Or just stick with having them full brightness and use a z-wave switch instead of a dimmer. That way you can keep the tape and power supply and at least turn them on and off via z-wave.
If you go that method. Consider one of those cheap LED tape controllers off eBay which you can mount between the power supply and the tape. It won’t be z-wave but you can still set brightness via a remote.
Just a bit of background.
Typical dimmers use wave cutting technology which just cuts off the front of back of the normal ac sine wave.
Your dimmable power supply can use this but it does it by sending out a reduced voltage dc signal.
LED tape dimmers work by send out pulses of a constant voltage dc signal. While the pulse is on the LED is lit and while it is off the LED is not. This is Al very fast and you don’t see it except as varying brightness. Bright is when the pulses of on are much longer than pulses of off and vice versa for dim.
From this you can see that a reduced dc voltage out from your dimmable power supply just gets too low and the circuitry stops working.
Hopefully this helps explain why it won’t work.
[quote=“Slartibartfast, post:15, topic:194267”]Or just stick with having them full brightness and use a z-wave switch instead of a dimmer. That way you can keep the tape and power supply and at least turn them on and off via z-wave.
If you go that method. Consider one of those cheap LED tape controllers off eBay which you can mount between the power supply and the tape. It won’t be z-wave but you can still set brightness via a remote.[/quote]
I hear ya… Damn I thought I had this figured out. I really don’t want FULL brightness as they are very bright double strip (already bought). I can’t believe there is no way to do this with a zwave dimmer. (similar to all of my other recessed can led lights). But I understand that i’m not understanding the electronics part of it with the low voltage…
THANKS!
What am i Missing with this diagram that was sent to me when asking the vendor?
It looks as though they make units specifically for LED control. The ones I have seen in the past definitely cannot work this way but this is good news for you and for me in the future.
As you have this from the manufacturer you can go ahead safely. I will look at UK versions for my use too.
Checking online shows me that this can’t be used for 3 colour LED tape but is okay for 1 colour.
Obviously technology marches on.
Just to be safe, I would send them the details of the tape you are using and ask them to confirm it will work on that. If the say okay, go for it.
Let us know how it all works out.
WOO HOO! I connected it and it works. Dims without flickering, on/off, no electrocution, looks light it works perfectly. I did notice the LED strip gets somewhat warm, not hot.