Or the other thing that works pretty well are switches with associations. 3,4,5 way without travelers.
Yup.
Problem is, I still have to put a Z-Wave device outside and that’s the big thing I’m really trying to avoid. The distance from the controller, being outside in the cold of winter, and the fact that it’s potentially exposed to the elements (if anything ever leaks in the wall box) makes me hesitant to take this course.
I'm torn on what I'll eventually do as I really don't want to install the micro switch in the outside box, subjecting it to sub-freezing temperatures in the winter.Electronics work quite well in the cold. As long as there is no condensation. Electronics really do not like heat!
Can you not weatherize the wall box? I have zwave receptacles this way using an outdoor box with no issues.
Also… You know the remote switch is also not mechanical right? It actually also has a chip a PCB granted a simple one with an LED etc… It just does not have a zwave comm chip and antenna. It really does not make much of a difference to me which one of the two is outside.
Several options and alternatives have been given to complete this project, not much else can be done.
You can lead the Donkey to water, but you can’t make him drink. ;D
And don’t ever suck from behind. All you get is mud.
Thanks to those that essentially turned this thread into a name-calling one.
The wall box outside is weatherized, but I don’t know that I ‘trust’ it to stay that way as the seal is pretty flimsy. Additionally, I don’t know how well it will hold up to being re-opened.
RTS - My thoughts about the devices being outside, yet energized, were that the device would be able to maintain a very small amount of heat to keep it warmer than the surrounding air and such. Wasn’t AS concerned about it as a result. Still, the distance for the radio from the controller is my biggest area of concern with this setup and why I see this as so frustrating.
[quote=“ember1205, post:1, topic:192782”]I have Leviton switches and dimmers and a couple of Aeotec Micro Switches (G2). I’m attempting to set a couple of these up on three-way circuits and it’s an absolute BEAR to do. “Regular” three-switches require three wires plus ground. Because these Z-Wave devices all require constant power and a Neutral, it means that you really need to run FOUR wires into the switch gang boxes and/or have the actual switch be installed in the box that also connects to the LOAD. This can further increase the number of wires required between boxes.
For example: I have an outside light with a switch by the door, and another switch located at the lights (on the elevated pool deck). In order to wire this so that the Aeotec switch is inside the house, and because the LOAD is actually accessible through the remote box, here’s what’s needed for wires…
The inside box requires Line, Neutral, Ground and FOUR runners. The first runner will carry the switched power out to the lights, the second and third are used as the toggles on the three-way switches. The fourth runner is the “hot” side of the remote three-way switch.
The outside box requires Line, Neutral, Ground, and FOUR runners. Same configuration as used above.
That’s a total of SIX wires plus ground in each box, which is ridiculous. I can’t believe how complicated the wiring gets with some of these devices. It’s actually smarter to run Line and Neutral inside with no load and use a standard two pole switch. Run Line and Neutral to the outside and also use a standard two pole switch. Install a micro switch in each box and “link” them together inside of Vera so that turning one on turns the other one and turning one off turns the other off. The one outside will have the load connected to it, there will be no load on the inside one and it will be used only to make the association to the outside one.
What a giant pain in the rear it is to use these things in 3-way configurations![/quote]
I use both 3 way and on/off Insteon Switches on my Vera 2 and have been very happy with them
http://www.smarthome.com/lights-appliances/switches/dimmer-switches.html
You can also order them on Amazon
Howard
Im just acquiring a Lutron caseta 3 way in wall switch with pico remote. I don’t have a Lutron hub and don’t plan to buy one. I do have Vera working with homelink for iOS Siri control.
Will I be able to control lights via Vera or via Siri without the Lutron hub?
If no, anyone wanna buy or trade for something that’ll work for me?
I believe the only two hubs that work with the Caseta line are the Caseta Hub (and Pro Hub) and the Wink Hub, Lutron uses a proprietary radio so generally is not going to be compatible with other systems without some kind of bridge.
They are fantastic dimmers however, if you want to go the cheap route to integrate with Vera you can get a Wink Hub for like $50.
Why wire it 3-way when you have Z-wave to help? I have 2-way and 3-way circuits set up using Z-wave associations from additional inputs or spare channels on the modules (Fibaro, Qubino) - for example, in a 2-way, the second channel on each module doesn’t switch a load directly but instead is associated with the load channel on the other module. Works beautifully. Appreciate your modules might differ but maybe it’s easier to think about changing those than running a load more cables?
Converting a 3-way to dual single pole switches isn’t always trivial either, but I follow the thinking (and had considered it myself).
My biggest gripe is that the device with the radio often ends up furthest from the controller.
If you feel converting a 3 or 4 way to Z-Wave is too tough than you’re likely using the wrong switches…
I just did this with the GE line and it was trivial, and I believe it meets the needs of the OP.
The Z-Wave enabled device is the “line switch”, closest to the load center. Traditionally, coming out of this circuit you would have a red/black/ground/neutral. Convert the black to “load”, and splice the black wires in all the other switch locations together, and splice it to the load circuit.
The remaining red traveler becomes the signal line for additional GE “add-on” switches. Each of these takes a low voltage traveler + neutral + ground.
These Add-on switches are dumb, not Z-Wave, and rely on having the low voltage “traveler” line coming in from the “master” switch.
MJ
Absolutely everyone has COMPLETELY missed the point of this thread.
I understand electricity, wiring, and how to wire Z-Wave switches. I’m good.
My gripe is that using Z-Wave switches in a 3-way setup significantly “changes the rules” with regard to where you place devices. I have a 3-way circuit it my kitchen. When I bought the house, there was a dimmer at location a and a “regular switch” at location b. I bought a Leviton switch system that gave me the ability to control the dimming at BOTH locations. Win.
Now, with Z-wave, the dimmer is forced to be at location b which is the more “out of the way” location for controlling these particular lights. There is NO WAY to put the dimmer in the primary location because of the way the wiring is in the walls. It’s frustrating.
[quote=“ember1205, post:34, topic:192782”]Absolutely everyone has COMPLETELY missed the point of this thread.
I understand electricity, wiring, and how to wire Z-Wave switches. I’m good.
My gripe is that using Z-Wave switches in a 3-way setup significantly “changes the rules” with regard to where you place devices. I have a 3-way circuit it my kitchen. When I bought the house, there was a dimmer at location a and a “regular switch” at location b. I bought a Leviton switch system that gave me the ability to control the dimming at BOTH locations. Win.
Now, with Z-wave, the dimmer is forced to be at location b which is the more “out of the way” location for controlling these particular lights. There is NO WAY to put the dimmer in the primary location because of the way the wiring is in the walls. It’s frustrating.[/quote]
The way you write it is sounds like more like you can only control dimming from one location which is not true.
So your first “WIN” is also true with Z-wave, As you can also have the “ability to control the dimming at BOTH locations”.
Your more concerned where the placement of the master switch vs. the slave is located which shouldn’t matter as much as your making it. Range issues is probley the only valid argument on that front and I have nothing to say about it except that’s how your house wiring was ran. Not everyone’s house is wired the same way and there is going to be more then a few ways to install or wire up the switches. What you have in your walls is what you have.
[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:35, topic:192782”]The way you write it is sounds like more like you can only control dimming from one location which is not true.
So your first “WIN” is also true with Z-wave, As you can also have the “ability to control the dimming at BOTH locations”.
Your more concerned where the placement of the master switch vs. the slave is located which shouldn’t matter as much as your making it. Range issues is probley the only valid argument on that front and I have nothing to say about it except that’s how your house wiring was ran. Not everyone’s house is wired the same way and there is going to be more then a few ways to install or wire up the switches. What you have in your walls is what you have.[/quote]
Yes, you can only control dimming from one location with Z-Wave switches. The “companion” switch does not have dimming control (at least not the ones from Leviton) and your only alternative is to use Vera to control dimming. That’s not what I’m going for.
Yes, I’m concerned about the location of the Master switch because that is the one that has the Z-Wave radio. And, it definitely comes down to distance and also actual location. One of my circuits required me to put the radio device outside because that’s where the load is located. A light switch is a very basic device that contains no electronics - it is a mechanical device. Z-Wave switches are electronic devices and things like temperature and moisture are more important to be wary of.
Weatherproof boxes for exterior use are somewhat of a “myth”. By this I mean that many boxes exist that will do a very reliable job of keeping moisture out. But, they can and do fail (and sometimes don’t work correctly from day one). It’s one thing for moisture to enter a box, interfere with the electrical path, and cause the circuit to trip. It’s another thing to have that moisture damage my Z-Wave devices and force me to have to replace them.
It’s just irritating that, while you CAN achieve 3-way circuit controls, you “must” use a specific companion switch (unless you’re using the micro switch controllers) and the device with the radio has to be placed physically close to the load. I’ve looked at the various 3-way circuits in my house and have determined that the majority of them are wired in such a way that the end with the load is the end that’s further from the controller.
I was not aware that some companion switches can’t dim as all of mine do and something seems wrong there. I have GE and recently started switching to Homeseer’s switches. I have not had a Leviton switch (don’t like price or looks) and and am shocked that their z-wave companion switches wouldn’t have the dimming feature.
EDIT: I did a quick search and it seems like the Leviton VP00R-10Z is the remote 3way dimming switch you need, but if you give the model numbers you currently have that would be better. (reading the reviews on this Aux switch they say it works with the DZMX1-1LZ)
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-VP00R-10Z-Digital-Coordinating-applications/dp/B001HSYT2O
Also on the outside, I undertsand your paranoid and I can’t fix that but I have been running Patio switches (not 3 way) and Outlets to control low voltage lighting outdoors for 3-4 years now without a failed switch. I’m sure at some point I’ll have to replace them but at 30.00 for one here or there I’m good when that times comes. So far I have swapped out several switches in favor of Instant status and double/triple tap features vs. failing.
Also if your concerned with sealing of the covers I’m sure you can come up with some other ideas to better seal them. Some type of silicone or the like to make the box sealed to your liking.
Adapt, overcome, or give up…
I was not aware that some companion switches can’t dim as all of mine do and something seems wrong there. I have GE and recently started switching to Homeseer’s switches. I have not had a Leviton switch (don’t like price or looks) and and am shocked that their z-wave companion switches wouldn’t have the dimming feature.
EDIT: I did a quick search and it seems like the Leviton VP00R-10Z is the remote 3way dimming switch you need, but if you give the model numbers you currently have that would be better. (reading the reviews on this Aux switch they say it works with the DZMX1-1LZ)
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-VP00R-10Z-Digital-Coordinating-applications/dp/B001HSYT2O
Also on the outside, I undertsand your paranoid and I can’t fix that but I have been running Patio switches (not 3 way) and Outlets to control low voltage lighting outdoors for 3-4 years now without a failed switch. I’m sure at some point I’ll have to replace them but at 30.00 for one here or there I’m good when that times comes. So far I have swapped out several switches in favor of Instant status and double/triple tap features vs. failing.
Also if your concerned with sealing of the covers I’m sure you can come up with some other ideas to better seal them. Some type of silicone or the like to make the box sealed to your liking.[/quote]
Is it paranoia if they’re actually after you? 
When I opened up the outdoor boxes to install the Aeotec micro switch, the lower of the two had water in it. I’m grateful that the micro switch was going in the upper box at that point, but it reinforced the fact that these things can and do leak. Silicone is definitely the answer in this case as the foam gaskets they include are -barely- large enough to cover the box and that’s why they fail. It’s incredibly difficult to get them placed perfectly.
I wasn’t aware of that one particular switch, and it’s about the same price as the specific companion switch that I -did- buy (Amazon.com). Good to know for the future.
I always drill an EXTREMELY small hole in the bottom of the box, just in case…