I’m just curious if anyone has opted to re-wire their house (diy) when doing home automation. I’ve been looking around and at least most of the switches are wired in, what would consider, inappropriate ways (though they are more than likely up to code). For instance instead of running the 3-wire from switch 1 to switch 2 and then 2-wire to the fixture/outlet, they run the 3-wire to the light and then just run another 3-wire to switch 2 (meaning they can get away with 1 less length of cable).
I’m not stranger to wiring, I wired my own equipment closet (6’x6’ with more out lets than you can count), I’ve run power to my Shed/Workshop and completely wired it, I ran power to my TV from the equipment closet to the TV (for battery backup) and even ran power for the subs as well (one in each corner of the living room) and I didn’t even bread a sweat (ok, FL in an attic you sweat, but you know what I mean…LOL). Anyways, I’m not scared to do it and I’m not talking a 100% complete rewire back to the box. Taking the example above, I just want to remove the 3-wire going to the fixture and replace it with a 3-wire going to the switch 2 then run a new 2-wire to the fixture. Should be fairly simple and I’ve become a pro at repairing drywall, so I’m confident when I’m done you’d never know I did it.
I guess I’m curious if I’m the only considering this and if I’m crazy for wanting to do it. Would it be better to just use what I have and figure out a way to do it with the existing wire?
Another question is that I’m considering running a second 2-wire from switch 1 to switch 2 so that I can have constant power there (for another switch that will be used as a remote 3way for another switch in an adjacent room). Is this a bad idea, or while I’m re-wiring should I just track down the other fixture and re-wire it to a proper 3-way.
Do you have access to the fixture’s wiring / wouldn’t, say, a Leviton dimmer/switch + remote work?[/quote]
I do have access to it all. 1 story with attic (where all the wiring is run). Like I said I’m not scared to run new wire. I don’t think the “remote” would work in this case because the 3 wire they are sending to switch 2 is technically all “common”. They are using the white as the power to the lights and then using the black and red as travelers. This means that box actually doesn’t have a neutral. Since I’m using mostly LED bulbs in my house, I’ve convinced myself to go with the light switches that don’t rely on just the common to feed it power. Hence, a neutral is required. I know I could get past it, but I’m not sure if I want to.
My biggest hurdle was my S/O and I thought she would say “Hell no! No more holes in the walls” (I love my DIY ), but she didn’t and all she said was “Just finish the new master bath first”, to which I have to remind her that SHE needs to help pick out tile, so I can’t move forward on that.
Right now I’m in the planning stages for most of the additions. I already have a vera with a schlage lock, leviton switch (for the foyer), a GE Outlet, a GE Dimmer switch and a leviton lamp dimmer on it’s way (to replace the GE one since I prefer the load sense feature for where I put the dimmer. Just bad planning on my part). I also think I’ve convinced myself to try and limit myself to Leviton for most of the stuff. I trust them, and though they are more expensive, I’m hoping that they will be worth it.
If you are at it … If you do not have an alarm system yet … add all of the wires for Motion/Window/Door sensors … then later you can wire these to an Alarm system that is coupled to Vera.
[ul][li]I have mostly “awning” style windows for now (having double hung installed is on the list, but we’re not there yet). I’m not sure how those work with alarm systems. [/li]
[li]I’m not sure how to do much work on exterior walls, but it’s not like I couldn’t research and learn it.[/li]
[li]I was considering having someone do that part for me…LOL[/li][/ul]
My plan it to ultimately have a z-wave compatible alarm system installed though, because I like how the door and windows sensors will be better concealed (and won’t require batteries!).
You can go with wire-less sensors … but I would skip the Z-Wave ones.
They are much less reliable then the wireless ones provided with the alarm systems.
The down side with Wireless motion sensors … is that there is a 6 second delay from
motion to when the motion is reported … to help prevent false alarms … that’s why wired ones are more useful when used in connection with home automation.
So, the supply (2-wire) is coming in at the fixture, and then a 3-wire to each switch?[/quote]
Yes, 2-wire (line) is going to switch 1 then 3-wire to fixture, then 3-wire to switch 2. Because they did it that way, the 3-wire is actually using the 2 blacks as the travelers and then using the white as the power back to the fixture. From what I understand the proper way to do it is to run 3-wire directly from switch 1 to switch 2 and then run 2-wire to the fixture from switch 2. Doing it this way means I have a true neutral at each switch (not normally they would not be used by the switches). I’m fairly comfident that the way they did it was “up to code”, it just limits what I can do at the switch locations.
However, we have 2 rooms in the middle the hallway with no switches, so I think I’ve just decided to just rewire the whole circuit and be done with it. This way I can wire for 1-2 4-way switches for those 2 rooms in addition to the 3-way switches at either end.
[quote=“oTi@, post:8, topic:176437”]
[…] leviton lamp dimmer on it’s way (to replace the GE one since I prefer the load sense feature for where I put the dimmer. […]
Load sense feature and LED bulb may not be compatible.[/quote]
I have verified that it is in fact compatible (at least using my lamps). The interesting thing to note though is that I have 2 lamps plugged into 1 dimmer via a 3 plug splitter (didn’t see an issue since they are LEDs and don’t come close to the 300w limit). Anywho, the load sense only works if I turn both lamps off, then turn one on. Because of this I found out that the GE one I had did in fact have load sense and it actually dims better. I may be going with the GE ones from now on due to this.
So you have line/neutral in box 1 to power switch 1 (say VRS15). Then use 3-wire to bring neutral/load/remote to fixture (say on white/black/red); connect neutral + load to fixture. Light should now work with switch 1. Continue neutral + remote to switch 2 (the Leviton remote without the LED) on 3-wire (say on white/red). Light should now also work with remote switch 2.
Excellent. I have seen issues with turning off a connected lamp, presumably due to the load sensing kicking in, and the lamp would come back on. Better with 2 lamps on the same dimmer, but not reliably. Probably specific to the LED bulbs used.
So you have line/neutral in box 1 to power switch 1 (say VRS15). Then use 3-wire to bring neutral/load/remote to fixture (say on white/black/red); connect neutral + load to fixture. Light should now work with switch 1. Continue neutral + remote to switch 2 (the Leviton remote without the LED) on 3-wire (say on white/red). Light should now also work with remote switch 2.[/quote]
I’ve since cedied tha I"m going to put in a third and forth switch in the hallway, so I think I’m just gonna rewire it. Thanks for the suggestion though. I may do that in the mean time I didn’t think of it no really needing the traditional 3way wiring for this to work with z-wave and have neutrals in both locations.
Excellent. I have seen issues with turning off a connected lamp, presumably due to the load sensing kicking in, and the lamp would come back on. Better with 2 lamps on the same dimmer, but not reliably. Probably specific to the LED bulbs used.[/quote]
I don’t use it to turn them off, I can see how that would be frustration, but my GF hasn’t wholly grasped the z-wave kick I"m on, so she knows she can turn them on manually now, which is important.
If I were you I would rewire. I have a fairly new house, about 13 years old, and the lights are all loop wired (power goes directly to the light box and then is looped to the switch over a 2 conductor cable, so no neutral in the switch boxes). If it weren’t for textured ceilings (can’t be repaired so I don’t dare damage them) I would rewire also.
Kick in the head is after my house was built they changed the code here requiring a neutral in every box, specifically to accommodate modern electronic dimmers and CFL/LED lighting.
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), but she didn’t and all she said was “Just finish the new master bath first”, to which I have to remind her that SHE needs to help pick out tile, so I can’t move forward on that.
I didn’t think of it no really needing the traditional 3way wiring for this to work with z-wave and have neutrals in both locations.