Hi all I have recently got myself a veralite and having investigated the options have decided that hard wiring a DSC panel with sensors is going to work out a good option vs wireless z-wave sensors, as I am running cables through my house before a refurb anyway. I just want to confirm what I need. I am looking at the 1832 system. For the interface, am I right in thinking that the 3DS is the best option currently? I will be running cat5e as well as alarm cable, so no issues with getting a connection to the board. Does it matter what keypad, or does the plugin not care?
Also, the DSC is vastly cheaper if bought from the US… I have seen mention of a North american version of the panel (firmware I guess). Does anyone know if this would cause any issues for this working in the UK? Appreciate I will need to source a different transformer for the cabinet.
The DSC 1832 is a good system which provide you with 32 zones. Depending on how much you integrate (reuse) zones for Home Automation (HA) activities, you might consider the 1864 which gives you ability to expand later.
Wired is the preferred and most economical design for the system; however, wireless modules are fine when used for security aspects. The only design consideration with wireless motion sensors is they have 6 seconds delays and high traffic shutdown. This does not matter for security and is designed to reduce false reporting but for HA 6 seconds is a very long delay. .
The EVL3 is the most current available and it does not worry about what keypad you use, but you should look at an alpha/numerical as it makes both programming, fault finding and human interaction with the panel so much easier.
There is also a difference between the US and EU frequencies and the will be differences between the firmware to set localizations to suit laws. Will it operate anywhere (including UK) yes with the correct power supply and there are setting to change between 50/60 hertz to suit.
A fair bit of discussion can be found here. It won’t cover the difference between UK and US model but keypad are discussed including wire free keypad and newer modules.
Thanks! So the ability to change frequency is just on a dipswitch on the board? Also, I note that I need some sort of expansion board to have more than 8 hard wired zones, but can not find this board anywhere. Do you happen to know what this is and maybe a link to somewhere that sells them?
The change frequency 50/60 hertz relate to the power supply and the internal clock on the board e.g UK = 50 hertz. This is programmable setting and not a dip switch.
The wireless devices are both 433 MHz but the US and EU are difference so if you ever utilise wireless sensors, you will need to stick to one country or region.
Ok sorry for the stupid question but will the board need to be programmed BEFORE I can use a UK Power supply, or would i be ok plugging in a UK transformer and then programming the frequency and clock? When you say I would need to use one region, you mean if I buy a US spec alarm, I need to buy US wireless sensors as well?
Plus any sensors I want, I should be good to go? Anything else you think I should consider? Do you know if the cabinet supplied in that kit is big enough for the expansion board and EVL3 or would I need to get the large cabinet for that?
[quote=“Borat”]Ok sorry for the stupid question but will the board need to be programmed BEFORE I can use a UK Power supply, or would i be ok plugging in a UK transformer and then programming the frequency and clock? When you say I would need to use one region, you mean if I buy a US spec alarm, I need to buy US wireless sensors as well?
Plus any sensors I want, I should be good to go? Anything else you think I should consider? Do you know if the cabinet supplied in that kit is big enough for the expansion board and EVL3 or would I need to get the large cabinet for that?[/quote]
You can change 50/60 Hz setting anytime. It is used for the internal clock to keep time. It isn’t a major factor when you do it, so plugging in a UK transformer and then programming the electrical frequency and clock is fine.
What I am trying to articulate reference on region refer to wireless devices. In the case of the product you have listed, it contain an RF keypad and this would be US specs freq. therefore, if you decided to purchase some wireless sensors in the future, you will need to source US ones. This is different to the main board being US or UK spec’d as that is more about minor differences on the firmware and localisation to meet regional laws.
The cabinet is big enough for the main board and several other smaller boards on the sides. I have also drilled additional holes in top to add place another module e.g the EVL3.
As was pointed out, the gear for the U.S. market will have default settings that are correct for that locale. You may wish to change those, to be compliant for your locale. There may be quite a few settings / differences, with subtle nuances. RF adds another dimension as well. Doesn’t mean it won’t work, but it comes down to compliance (if that’s a concern).
Another aspect might be getting this imported, as well as duties/VAT?
As far as the documentation shows the firmware is the same other than default. However 4.6 is only currently available in the US market and I would suggest that is to support new module that may not have gained certification in other regions as yet.
oTi@ Do not quote me on this, 701, 702 and the other localisation were to do with max call attempts (5) on US and (3) here
Alarm time outs and other alarm shutdown timings but nothing major as far as I remember.
As I am in AUS, we use the same RF as EU but the firmware is now localised as well even between AUS and NZ localised now. I have never looked into it in depth. My initial systems were US and when I migrated from the 832 to 1862 a few years ago where I was living then, I just swapped out the panel but retrained US wireless module and sensors. Worked without any issues. I later switched to full local EU RF (which was then used here) and the last RF modules were AU but are still EU compatible.
So conclusion other than local compliance they was only minor difference but functionally the same.
Thanks for the details. I meant to refer to the 50/60 Hz frequency setting that you alluded to. I just wanted to make sure that it is in fact switchable on a U.S. system.
Below is an extract from the US manual for 4.6 I just downloaded from DSC US site. Yes, it shows it is still configurable. And only difference between US and EU is 50/60 Hz for 702/702 International Settings.
Section [701] First International Option Code
Option Description
[1] ON: configures the system for 50Hz AC. OFF: configures the system for 60Hz AC.
[2] ON: the system uses the internal crystal for the internal panel clock. OFF: the system uses the AC frequency for the internal panel clock.
[3] ON: the system will inhibit arming if a Low Battery or AC trouble condition is present. OFF: arming will not be inhibited.
[4] ON: all Tamper troubles will latch and arming will be inhibited. Enter Installer Programming to clear the trouble condition and return to normal operation. OFF: tamper troubles will not latch and will not inhibit arming.
[5] ON: all access codes are 6 digits long. OFF: all access codes are 4 digits long.
[6] ON: the system will hang up if a busy tone is detected. This attempt is not counted towards the Maximum Dialing Attempts programmed.
OFF: the panel will not detect busy tones.
[7] ON: the system will charge the battery at approximately 700mA. OFF: the system will charge the battery at 400mA.
[8] ON: the system will abort a DLS session, Escort access, Listen In/Two-way session if a new central station communication event occurs. OFF: non-critical events (Test transmission, Periodic Test and System Test) will not abort the session. Events will be communicated after the session is complete.
Section [702] Second International Option Code
Option Description
[1] ON: the communicator uses 33/67 make/break ratio when pulse dialing. OFF: the system uses 40/60 make/break ratio.
[2] ON: the system dials regardless of the presence of dial tone after the first attempt. OFF: the system dials only if dial tone is detected.
[3] ON: changes the Test Transmission Cycle Time to minutes. OFF: sends a Test Transmission after the programmed number of days.
[4] ON: the system accepts 1600Hz handshake pulse formats. OFF: the system accepts 1400Hz or 2300Hz handshakes.
[5] ON: the system generates a tone for 500mS every 2 seconds indicating digital equipment is making the call vs. a voice call. OFF: the system does not generate a tone.
[6] ON: the tone generated (2100Hz.) indicates that digital equipment is making the call. OFF: the tone is 1300Hz.
[7] ON: the DLS dowloading window is 1 hour. OFF: the DLS downloading window is 6 hours.
[8] ON: the system activates the bell output if a Failure to Communicate trouble occurs while the system is armed.
OFF: the system does NOT activate the bell output if a Failure to Communicate trouble occurs while the system is armed.
Ok thanks all thats brilliant info thanks. This may be (another!) stupid question, but do I need an RF keypad? If the main board supports wireless sensors, I presumed that the RF keypad was there as a repeater, but maybe I am wrong about that and the sensors actually communicate via the keypad?
WRT tax and import duty, yes I will have to pay it, but the price differential is huge! For example, EVL3 from the US - $89 (about ?55), UK price - ?145!! The DSC stuff is at least 50% or more cheaper. Tax and import costs will add about 25% in total, so still works out worthwhile.
Certification is not a concern to me, as this will not be hooked up to any monitoring service. I am mainly interested in the links into the sensors for vera… will of course set up as an alarm as well but it was the automation potential that got me interested. 10x wireless Z-wave motion sensors vs 10x hard wired into the DSC price differential means it pretty much pays for itself.
RF is through the keypad (or a separate module) only.
I have yet to test if the siren on our system actually works… Currently using the setup to detect open doors and windows, causing a chime on the keypad and monitoring in Vera. (We’re away / going to bed: did we close the windows on the ground floor? It’s raining: are the windows closed? Kids opening windows they shouldn’t be opening: alarm chime. Etc.)
Side bar: you can also ‘wire Vera’ into (zones on) the panel, so any sort of event in Vera can trip a zone on the panel. (Example: our garage door opener (GDO) has a motion detector, so its built-in light turns on whenever motion is detected in the garage; the GDO is powered through a Z-Wave switch with energy metering. Vera detects the jump in power usage when the GDO’s light turns on, she turns on additional lighting in the garage and triggers a zone in the alarm panel, which causes a chime on the keypads.)
[quote=“oTi@, post:14, topic:176421”]RF is through the keypad (or a separate module) only.
I have yet to test if the siren on our system actually works… Currently using the setup to detect open doors and windows, causing a chime on the keypad and monitoring in Vera. (We’re away / going to bed: did we close the windows on the ground floor? It’s raining: are the windows closed? Kids opening windows they shouldn’t be opening: alarm chime. Etc.)
Side bar: you can also ‘wire Vera’ into (zones on) the panel, so any sort of event in Vera can trip a zone on the panel. (Example: our garage door opener (GDO) has a motion detector, so its built-in light turns on whenever motion is detected in the garage; the GDO is powered through a Z-Wave switch with energy metering. Vera detects the jump in power usage when the GDO’s light turns on, she turns on additional lighting in the garage and triggers a zone in the alarm panel, which causes a chime on the keypads.)[/quote]
Haha nice… Exactly yes, possibilities are endless. That example reminded me of this
Best Home Automation shopping experience. Shop at Ezlo!
I have yet to test if the siren on our system actually works… Currently using the setup to detect open doors and windows, causing a chime on the keypad and monitoring in Vera. (We’re away / going to bed: did we close the windows on the ground floor? It’s raining: are the windows closed? Kids opening windows they shouldn’t be opening: alarm chime. Etc.)
