I’ve noticed that Insteon have released a UK product now, and while limited support I’ve always seen the name and brand and wondered if it was any good.
However having invested in Vera, I was wondering if I dipped my toes in, if i could combined the two? From what I’ve read the native Insteon support within Vera is poor!
So it sounds like I have to go with the Altsteon, but how do I connect the Hub it to Vera? As this is not a usual UK product line.
Vera uses a PLM (PowerLinc Modem) to bridge to Insteon. That takes serial/USB commands, and sends them out over the Insteon network. Unfortunately, the PLMs (2413U and 2413S) are rated for US and Canada only.
The Insteon Hub is a controller like Vera. I do not own one, but the documentation quick-start guide seems to imply it might take Insteon commands over the network. Unfortunately, I didn’t easily discover any documentation on it.
I just pulled the developer sheet for the new hubs. They have the PLM integrated in to them and don’t directly expose the serial interface. Instead, they use a text based representation of the binary commands set over an HTTP GET. (Or, you can use their integrated scheduler, etc.)
At its code, Altsteon also queues commands in text representations of the binary commands. It is less efficient, but a little easier to work with. So, I don’t believe it would be terribly hard to add the functionality for someone that has a hub. In fact, the end result may actually work better than having a PLM plugged directly in to the Vera. This is mostly because you wouldn’t have to deal with the weirdness of serial ports on the Vera.
All that said, I don’t currently have one and don’t have the cash to purchase one right now. So, while I think getting support would be good I wouldn’t expect support anytime soon.
Thanks for responding @PerdueGuy and @fba It’s really interesting what you’ve both shared…
@fba - if you ever want a tester for the new UK box, then let me know, I’ll be happy to contribute any way I can. In the interim and considering what you’ve shared about text over HTTP GET, is there a certain format/line of code that could be used in Vera to interact with a UK Insteon module?
I’m going to get one I think, in anticipation if it integrating with Vera, plus I can write a review about it on my blog for those that are interested.
[size=8pt]Please Note : i’m a novice Linux user so any technical terms used above should not be taken as I know exactly what it looks like I am talking about [/size].
I would be interested to see how this goes so that we can easily direct interested customers in the right direction when they wish to use INSTEON and VERA.
The new v2.0 hubs are just becoming available over the next week. If you send me a direct message or email me directly, I’ll see what we can do to support you.
@ParkerC – That site appears to have commands similar to what is in the official developer documentation. However, I have not compared it with the developer documentation to see if it is an exact match. But, yes, I do believe you could use something like curl to control things. The LUUP extensions also have a method for doing an HTTP request that might be worth looking at.
However, the number of commands available for Insteon is fairly significant. And many of the return values are confusing without the documentation. So, while I am sure you can get basic things working, you may run in to issues as you expand in to deeper commands. If you have any C++ skills, you could probably override the InsteonPLM class and put a bare bones HTTP client in there that would let the rest of the Altsteon code treat the HTTP interface the same as the PLM. That would give you all of the support currently available in Altsteon.
P.S. A PLM is a Power Line Modem. It is a small box that plugs in to the power outlet and has a USB or serial port connection out of it. (The USB version is just a USB->Serial adapter on board.) It was one of a couple different ways that Insteon could be controlled in the US. Unfortunately, it looks like these won’t be an option outside the US.
@monions - i’ve dropped you a message via Vesternet, always glad to work with you guys, after all you take most of my disposable income . I would appreciate clarification on the difference between the previous ones your were selling and the V2s you mention?
@fba - sadly I have no programming skills that would take me down the road of building my own interface, (I wish) I was looking for a work around until someone like yourself would have the time, money, and desire to assist .
Hi I have been lucky enough to borrow my friends Insteon for the week with just a power socket, with a goal to try to send simple on and off commands from Vera - but sadly no joy…
I’ve tried to add the port but that did not work. Vera sends the command no problem, however the socket does not react/come on. (XXXXXX is where the device ID goes)
Off (F11)
os.execute('curl "curl http://192.168.1.222/3?02620XXXXX0F13FF=I=3"')
On (F13)
os.execute('curl "curl http://192.168.1.222/3?02620XXXXX0F11FF=I=3"')
Not sure if you typoed it or this is the issue, but it looks like you may have an extra 0 in there.
The on command is
0262AABBCC0F11FF
But, it looks like you may be using
02620AABBCC0F11FF
The web site you referenced previously also looks like it should end with “=I=3” and you appear to have “=I=3*”. (Or, maybe that is actually a " and my eyes just aren’t working tonight…)
My suggestion is to try running curl from the shell first so that you can take any weirdness from the Vera out of the equation. Once you have that working, then try to write the LUA to get it working.
Your eyes were working perfectly, I tested the command within a terminal window and it works.
One thing to note - It looks like I do have to specify the port in order to make it work otherwise curl seems to report that it cannot find the host. So all good ! Now I just need to try to do it via Vera and a scene.
Out of interest - Does the above help you in any way to understand what might be required to add support for the UK Insteon HUB to your Altsteon plugin?
I think adding super basic support wouldn’t be too hard. Altsteon keeps all commands in ASCII right up until they are submitted to the PLM. So, for some basic support, all that needs to happen is to take those commands, wrap them in the URL, open a TCP session to the web server and send the command. That part could be hacked up pretty quickly. The issue is how events come in. I think there is a second call that you have to make to get the new events, but I would need to look up the developer documentation.
Based on a previous look at the developer documentation, there isn’t any difference between how the hubs work for different countries other than the power line interfaces.
I suspect that if I had a hub, it would only take me a few hours to add the support. But, I am hesitant to try a blind implementation because of how hard it would be to troubleshoot and debug.
If you are going to try to control it via LUA you were probably on the right track before. Using curl should keep you from having to speak the HTTP protocol to the hub. If I were to implement the functionality in the Altsteon daemon, it would be opening a TCP socket to the web interface and speaking just enough HTTP to send it data and get back a response. Once you were able to do that, you could just have the commands for devices redirected to that interface instead of going out a serial port, and it should work. Well, with the exception of events like turning a light on or off at the switch. From what I saw in the documentation, that would take a different set of HTTP URLs.
Unfortunately, I don’t get over to the UK much anymore. A few years ago I spoke at some higher-ed conferences about wireless network security. But that was a couple of jobs ago.
@monions sounded like he was involved in the sale of Insteon stuff. I have no shame, so I will beg, perhaps he can set me up with a hub if he has connections back to the Smartlabs folks. ;D
I’m toying with the idea of creating a Vera Device & Implementation file for an Insteon plug socket.
It’s a huge leap into the unknown, but as I can now control on and off, if I can work out how to check the status for a simple on/off socket, it sounds like I potentially have basis for a very simple plug in?
To help me with that, please could someone/anyone help with the curl command to obtain the on/off status of a Insteon device?
Insteon look like they’re bringing out more devices too, but I’m only tempted to buy more if I can get it working seamlessly with Vera. Happy to help test an Alpha/Beta release?
dont have this device but something like this should work. dont forget to put a extra after the command as it seems not to work without… not sure they fixed that yet. also when no answer is received from the receiving device, luup is going to restart as it is going to hang.
I’ve actualky been able to turn on/off my Insteon device via Luup for a few weeks now, it’s now the deeper integration with Vera that I’m after, which it looks like Altsteon provides
i use this page a lot for development of my windows UI [url=http://wiki.mios.com/index.php/Category:Development]http://wiki.mios.com/index.php/Category:Development[/url]
perhaps it is of use to make a plugin. i looked into making a plugin but there is a huge lack of howto and i have to study Lua which im unfamiliar with. doesnt seem to complicated though
I work for the company that is the Australian distributor for the new INSTEON “Global” range. We get a lot of customers requesting information on how they can integrate INSTEON devices with the Vera. I cam across this forum and it seems that the Altsteon project is the closest thing that shows any hope…
Given that international customers only have access to the INSTEON Hub as a main controller, I am most interested to see how or if the Hub is on the radar as an interface for Altsteon’s Vera plugin. I am more than happy to assist in any way I can. fba - if interested, send me a message and we can discuss. Thanks
I tested the command within a terminal window and it works.