I am currently building a new house and would like to implement lighting automation. After a lot of research and reading it seems that Z-Wave is the best setup (C-Bus and other options which I have considered are too expensive and inflexible). The house consists of a combination of standard incandescent lights (in most rooms) plus recessed LED lights (in the kitchen and living area).
Given that I have the luxury of having the house wired from scratch, I wanted to ask for advice regarding the best setup. Ideas such as running neutral to all switches (for automation future-proofing), etc. are things that would be good to know now, so that the house can be wired appropriately. Basically, what can I do now to keep my options open in the future?
For Z-Wave lighting I am looking at using Fibaro dimmers and switches, since they seem very flexible and feature-rich, with a VERA Lite controller.
Some of the lighting is being controlled by two switches (i.e. two-way switching). This initially had me a bit worried, but reading the fantastic guides at Vesternet (http://www.vesternet.com/resources/application-notes/apnt-2) seem to indicate that this isn’t a problem and is fairly easily accomplished.
I am wondering about the best Fibaro device to use for the different types of lighting. The dimmers seem most suitable for the incandescent lights, but what about the LED lights? The FGD211 dimmer seems to have a minimum load of 25W, so would using the FGS211 switch instead avoid this issue (and having to use the Fibaro bypass module)?
N-way switching is fine. I’ve made much use of the dual relays. The only time I’ve used dimmers is where a neutral is not available. With a sufficient number of switched circuits, dimmers aren’t really necessary.
For switches, I’m in the UK and use the MK modular series which allow you to mix and match regular and momentary switches in one wall plate (although with Z-Wave modules I use exclusively momentary.) Don’t know if these are available in AU.
Off topic: I must chastise you on even considering incandescent. LED good enough for everything these day, surely?
This gives you all the flexibility you need.[/quote]
Thanks for the advice. In terms of “deep wall boxes” (something which I have not heard before) does that mean your faceplates still sit flush on the wall, but there is an increased cavity behind the faceplate (within the wall) to hold the various bits of equipment, such as the Z-Wave relays/dimmers?
By dual relay do you mean the Fibaro FGS221 (or alike)? Excuse my lack of knowledge, but is that the same as the FGS211 but just allows you to control two circuits from the same unit (and is thus cheaper, and more space efficient, than buying two separate relays).
Haha, yes. Unfortunately it comes down to cost (and I am trying to keep it down a bit!). I am guessing that you do not use dimmers because you have LEDs everywhere, and just use the relays instead? On a related topic, are there any minimum load requirements for the relays (like the dimmers)? Several of the LED light circuits on my plans only have one or two LED lights, which means that they will probably be below the minimum 25W for a dimmer. In these situations (assuming that I have neutral to those switches) should I just use relays instead of dimmers?
Absolutely. Got a double outlet even in the garage
For a new house, just ensure that all light switches have:
neutral wires
deep wall boxes
This gives you all the flexibility you need.
I couldn't agree more. Get 47mm deep wall-boxes installed so you'll have room for both cables and Z-Wave modules. The faceplaces still sit on the plaster so will look no different to normal.
I am wondering about the best Fibaro device to use for the different types of lighting. The dimmers seem most suitable for the incandescent lights, but what about the LED lights? The FGD211 dimmer seems to have a minimum load of 25W, so would using the FGS211 switch instead avoid this issue (and having to use the Fibaro bypass module)?
If you just want to switch the lamps on and off, use relay modules (FGS211 1 x 3kW or FGS221 2 x 1.5kW). If you want to be able to dim the lamps, use FGD211. If the lamps are dimmable LEDs, add a bypass (FGB001).
By dual relay do you mean the Fibaro FGS221 (or alike)? Excuse my lack of knowledge, but is that the same as the FGS211 but just allows you to control two circuits from the same unit (and is thus cheaper, and more space efficient, than buying two separate relays).
Yes, they are one in the same. I don’t believe there is a minimum load requirement on the relays. The switched connections are isolated from the relay power and can switch a completely separate voltage/circuit.
Do any of the modules get warm or hot? I have heard that the bypass module (FGB001) can get warm. Does this pose any kind of risk, particularly if the modules are installed in a wall cavity / wall box (which is a fairly enclosed environment without much ventilation)?
Do the Fibaro relay switches (FGS221 and FGS221) work the same in a two-way switching configuration as the Fibaro dimmer (FGD211)?
Yes-ish. You can have multiple momentary switches wired in parallel controlling a single FGS211 or FGS221 channel. The FGD211 has a special mode that allows two-way switching with two bistable switches that cannot be done with FGS211 or FGS221.
Do any of the modules get warm or hot?
They get warm - like most electronic devices. Hot? I wouldn't say so.
I have heard that the bypass module (FGB001) can get warm.
Warm? Yes but it is rated at 1 Watt maximum. Several people on this forum fit 20 Watt resistors to allow them to dim LED lamps. They can [u]really[/u] get warm. :o If your wall-box is confined, fit the FGB001 into the lamp fixture where there may be more room.
I will only be using momentary switches for the entire Z-Wave setup (since I can get those installed from day one) so it looks like those should work fine with all the different module types.
Good advice. Out of curiosity, if the bypass is installed to address the 25W minimum load on the circuit how does that work if the bypass is only rated at 1W? Doesn’t that mean that the rest of the circuit must be at least 24W? I say that with limited knowledge of how electrics work!
Out of curiosity, if the bypass is installed to address the 25W minimum load on the circuit how does that work if the bypass is only rated at 1W? Doesn't that mean that the rest of the circuit must be at least 24W?
No it doesn't. The FGB001 is not a simple resistor acting as a dummy load. It is an electronic circuit that passes the required minimum current without dissipating a lot of power and subsequent heat.
In addition to their main purpose for dimmable LED lamps, I have used FGB001 to run low-wattage compact flourescents with FGD211 on two-wire circuits - usually not possible without a 25 Watt dummy load. Like all the other Fibaro products I have used, they do what they were designed to do - work well. 8)
[quote=“RexBeckett, post:9, topic:176623”]No it doesn’t. The FGB001 is not a simple resistor acting as a dummy load. It is an electronic circuit that passes the required minimum current without dissipating a lot of power and subsequent heat.
In addition to their main purpose for dimmable LED lamps, I have used FGB001 to run low-wattage compact flourescents with FGD211 on two-wire circuits - usually not possible without a 25 Watt dummy load. Like all the other Fibaro products I have used, they do what they were designed to do - work well. 8)[/quote]
With the lighting arrangements fairly well sorted my attention has now turned to window furnishings. I am considering getting motorised blinds and using the FGR221 to control the blinds. Like the dimmers and relay switches, the blinds can be controlled using either Z-Wave commands or a switch directly connected to the Fibaro module. Assuming that I am using momentary buttons, is only one button used to control the blinds? If so, how can I command the blinds to specifically go up or go down (since there’s only one button)?
This is also a question which is relevant to the dimmers - if there’s only one button which controls the dimmer, how do you specifically tell the lights to get brighter or dimmer? The manual doesn’t seem to be particularly clear.
Does this have anything to do with S1 and S2 on the module (which is something else I don’t understand).
With blinds, I think it is usual to have two buttons or a single three-position, spring-return Up/Off/Down switch. Given Fibaro’s typical flexibility, it may be possible to use a single switch with appropriate configuration parameters. I don’t have a blind module to hand so I can’t check this out. I’m sure there are other forum members who can help here.
Regarding the FGD211 with momentary switches, it works as follows: A short press of the switch turns it on if it’s off or off if it’s on. Press and hold causes the dim level to change. Release the switch when you get to the level you want.
Does this have anything to do with S1 and S2 on the module (which is something else I don't understand).
The use of S1 and S2 depends on the type of module and how it is configured:
With FGS221 (2x1.5kW) S1 controls relay 1 and S2 controls relay 2.
With FGS211 (1x3kW) S1 controls the relay, S2 can be associated to control another Z-Wave device or used to trigger Vera scenes or PLEG logic.
With the FGR221 S1 is used for up and S2 for down. I’m sure there are other possibilities.
With FGD211 S1 is used for momentary switches. S2 can be used to allow two-way switching with bi-stable switches. This is a special mode that only supports two switches and requires configuration variable to be set to 1. I believe that the FGD211 can also be configured to use a three-position switch connected to S1 and S2 like the FGR221 but I have not tried it.
Thanks Rex. I was getting a bit confused with the S1/S2 changing on each module, but your explanation now makes things much clearer
So, if I am holding the button and the light increases to 100% if I keep holding the button will it then start dimming? If I then release the button (to set the new level) and then press and hold it again will it continue dimming until it reaches the minimum (in other words, does it track state / direction of dimming [brighter or dimmer] between pushes of the button)?
I don’t have one by me (I now use wireless-controlled LED lamps for all my dimmable lights) but I’m pretty sure the dim-level stops changing at max or min and you press the switch again to reverse the direction.
I noticed that the default switch type (parameter no. 14) on the FGS221 and FGS211 is a toggle switch, rather than a momentary switch. Is there a way to set this to be a momentary switch without associating it with a Z-Wave controller and network?
Since these will be installed in a brand new house, while it’s being constructed, it would be useful so that the electrician can check that all the lights work (as this will be done before I move in and setup the Z-Wave controller).
I’m afraid not. You need to include the modules onto a controller to change the configuration parameters. You could just set up Vera temporarily, connect power to the modules, include them and set the parameters.
If you are having the modules installed during construction, do make sure all your electrical contractors know about them. The modules may not take kindly to the 500 volts dc usually used to check insulation on new circuits. :o They should be disconnected before insulation tests are performed!
Thanks for that. Out of curiosity, what will be the behaviour of the lights if momentary switches are connected but the modules are in toggle switch mode? Will they just illuminate the light so long as the momentary switch is held down?
