I understand the reaction of Ap15e and also that of MCV
I think that the best solutions are:
The plugin developers create pages of gift to thank them for their hard work for the community.
CVD provide real documentation for developers and apprentices ^ ^
Given the enormous services that have made me both developers and Ap15e guessed, I find that these two normal people (and others of course) to receive donations from users.
IMO.
As this is a good enough place than any other, I wanted to make my 2000th post here. Though there have been ups and downs with MCV, you have to give them credit for trying. They are a small company and have a lot on their plate. Yes, they need to improve on things and re-work their priorities. But I have a good feeling that they will be here for quite some time and I for one will be here for the ride. I have been using Vera for over 2 years and used every release but UI3. I am looking forward to what is to come in the future of MCv.
[quote=“garrettwp, post:62, topic:171421”]As this is a good enough place than any other, I wanted to make my 2000th post here. Though there have been ups and downs with MCV, you have to give them credit for trying. They are a small company and have a lot on their plate. Yes, they need to improve on things and re-work their priorities. But I have a good feeling that they will be here for quite some time and I for one will be here for the ride. I have been using Vera for over 2 years and used every release but UI3. I am looking forward to what is to come in the future of MCv.
Nice! And thank you for all your help! ;D
This kind of discussion has been held a lot of times in this forum already. But never ever has anything changed due to users complaining.
I have become completely inactive in this forum, it just does not help me to invest hours and hours to re-answer very basic questions, I have no profit at all. And you cant blame it on the users, how should they be able to find things an wiki where half of the information is about a completely outdated UI (UI3).
I will not be releasing the unreleased plugins I coded. For example I am using my own XBMC plugin and I have some others in work. I am not releasing them because all I get is more questions and support and feature requests. After I released 3 plugins to the appstore, Micasa Verde did not even provide me a Vera for free, I got a 90 dollar refund on it, great (=>FY).
I will do just like MCV and the biggest part of the users, I just sometimes have a look on the forum and I profit if I feel like it.
BYE
There seems to be a lot of talk in this thread. I think some action would help greatly.
I actually stumbled across this thread when I found out that a bug I found today was reported by Ap15e more than a year ago. see http://bugs.micasaverde.com/view.php?id=1444
It was to my great surprise closed without resolution. It was reopened today as a result of my findings, see http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,4991.msg76940.html#msg76940
My question is, how fast can this bug be resolved?
Please provide a planned release date. And please confirm this for all vera devices and all UI versions.
The bug is easy to fix, at least in theory. The Evaluate() function converts the arguments from string to int using atoi(). Changing atoi() to atof() should be enough to fix it, but we fear this may break something somewhere else in the code. This little change requires a lot of testing, and we don’t have the time for this now. The best time for a change like this is when developing a new UI version, because there’s plenty of time for testing.
The bug is easy to fix, at least in theory. The Evaluate() function converts the arguments from string to int using atoi(). Changing atoi() to atof() should be enough to fix it, but we fear this may break something somewhere else in the code. This little change requires a lot of testing, and we don’t have the time for this now. The best time for a change like this is when developing a new UI version, because there’s plenty of time for testing.[/quote]
Strongly disagree. You guys have conflated functionailty with “UI”. In a well-designed system, they’d be as well-separated as can be. Fixing bugs in functionality while churning the UI just means you have more variables to solve for with fewer equations than if you did them separately.
I think most here would agree–there’s no reason to keep changing the UI until everything that can reasonably be made to work correctly does so. You’re working on the wrong thing as your priority.
–Richard
Not to add to the fray, but I’d also like to submit my vote for completing the Elk plugin.
I chose the Elk panel based on their strong user base and interoperability with Vera, not knowing how limited the interaction between the two systems are.
The Vera is lower cost than a (VRC0P + M1XZW for making and Elk z wave capable), so it’s a great solution and a cost saver (not to discount the multitude of other benefits that come with the Vera). I actually bought the z wave stuff for my Elk so that I could have it disarm when a valid lock code was entered, but I got the Vera to do the same thing and was so pleased with how it worked that I sent back the VRC0P & M1XZW without ever using them. I just wish I could access everything on the Elk such as output relays.
[quote=“rlmalisz, post:67, topic:171421”]I think most here would agree–there’s no reason to keep changing the UI until everything that can reasonably be made to work correctly does so. You’re working on the wrong thing as your priority.
–Richard[/quote]
I have to agree with this statement. I’m an electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry and I’ve been involved in product development for over 25 years now (yes, I’m old). You don’t work on a new UI while the underlying code base has issues. These should be fixed before limited resources are poured into a new interface. And proper documentation would make every user’s experience better.
Put the resources into making the product stable and usable FIRST, then work on a new UI. MCV has their priorities backwards.
While its certainly seems fun to single out MCV for working on one thing while you feel they should be working on the other… I have to wonder how many of these posters are gleefully running Microsoft Windows … An OS that is just riddled with bad foundation blocks and yet gets a whiz bang UI overhaul every year or so.
And while everyone can say … “Not Me” Windows owns 80% plus of the desktop … So somebody has to be booting into it.
And I’m not calling out just MS… Adobe, Apple, Norton and a boatload of other developers can be called out for the very same thing. Like it or not a sexy new look always sell 1000% more than a fine tuned brain.
[quote=“DaveGee, post:70, topic:171421”]While its certainly seems fun to single out MCV for working on one thing while you feel they should be working on the other… I have to wonder how many of these posters are gleefully running Microsoft Windows … An OS that is just riddled with bad foundation blocks and yet gets a whiz bang UI overhaul every year or so.
And while everyone can say … “Not Me” Windows owns 80% plus of the desktop … So somebody has to be booting into it.
And I’m not calling out just MS… Adobe, Apple, Norton and a boatload of other developers can be called out for the very same thing. Like it or not a sexy new look always sell 1000% more than a fine tuned brain.[/quote]
It’s not “fun”, and they’re not being singled out. Yes, a lot of software development effort at a lot of places goes to glitz and not to substance. But this forum is about their product. I think it could be a lot better than it is. You mention MS (whose stuff I only run when it’s unavoidable–like for Quicken). They made a similar mistake when they pushed the IE guts down into the OS, but their mistake was calculated, whereas I think MCV is just overreaching.
I won’t run stuff that is not stable just because it’s pretty. I’m a software engineer (and architect). I’m still hanging on to my V2 running UI4. It’s not perfect, but I understand its issues and limitations. MCV made what appear to be a lot of superfluous changes in their move to V3 and UI5 that I am certain they don’t yet understand the issues and limitations in that setup.
Form follows function. I get that Z-wave devices and protocols make Bluetooth stuff look rock-solid (it’s not). I realize that trying to get a random assemblage of Z-wave and other device types to behave as a stable system is really hard. But unless there was some fundamental flaw in the prior design, making massive changes (including
GUI changes) isn’t likely to result in more stability. As products mature, the design oscillations dampen.
The MCV approach makes it look like they consider each new rev of their product (and new UI) a new, distinct product. They don’t pitch it that way, but that seems to be the net result. If that’s the case, the products never mature, and the osciallation never dampens. Which is what we’re seeing. I’d prefer to see something else.
–Richard
The comparison between Vera and desktop operating systems is inaccurate. Most people use Windows because it’s more functional than open source alternatives. Not because of it’s fancy GUI. I think most people are using Vera because it’s cheap. I personally find UI 5 to be less attractive and intuitive than UI 4.
[quote=“chixxi, post:64, topic:171421”]This kind of discussion has been held a lot of times in this forum already. But never ever has anything changed due to users complaining.
I have become completely inactive in this forum, it just does not help me to invest hours and hours to re-answer very basic questions, I have no profit at all. And you cant blame it on the users, how should they be able to find things an wiki where half of the information is about a completely outdated UI (UI3).
I will not be releasing the unreleased plugins I coded. For example I am using my own XBMC plugin and I have some others in work. I am not releasing them because all I get is more questions and support and feature requests. After I released 3 plugins to the appstore, Micasa Verde did not even provide me a Vera for free, I got a 90 dollar refund on it, great (=>FY).
I will do just like MCV and the biggest part of the users, I just sometimes have a look on the forum and I profit if I feel like it.
BYE[/quote]
Chixxi,
While I understand (and sympathize) your points, instead of getting frustrated and quitting - a change of approach/perspective could make you happy.
What you are experiencing is exactly the same as all valued community members that do development… perfect example is the skinners/addon coders at XBMC. They are constantly hounded by users with requests… this just happens.
The coders do what they do for 2 reasons… 1) they want the code for themselves & 2) they want to help the community – if you don’t care about these, don’t do it.
If you do care then take the user requests for what they are… requests. No one has a gun to your head. Do it if you think it would be fun/needed/etc… don’t if you don’t.
Threatening MCV has proven useless… it seems they are simply too stupid to care, or know why they SHOULD CARE. Oh well… the device and our general user base are good people and the sharing is active… don’t be like MCV and shun the people who care and appreciate you and your work the most… the users.
I used to code UIs and scripts for XBMC, Homeseer, and NetRemote (if anyone here ever used it)… when I had more time. I shared it all, freely and got nothing from it but the satisfaction that I helps MANY people… and in several cases others took that code, changed/enhanced it, and that helped even more people.
The Vera as a device is great… yes, the MCV has a serious case of ‘la cabeza en el culo’ when it comes to their own development priorities. But don’t let that stop us from making it better ourselves and taking advantage of the bets platform on the market, for the price - by far. Trust me, I’ve used MOST of them.
Sorry to see you go, but I fully understand. Vera “was” a good idea that is dying on the vine. I posted a question in upgrading about any word on updates, and fixes or other platforms. got 75 views and not a peep of response. I am very frustrated with the product, its not mainstream as touted in the advertisements. It’s techie equipment - and I am a techie, but at some point the time to benefit is not there. example, spend 100 hours getting basic functions to work, vice go and manually switch the light or thermostat. Well in my life I would never spend 100 hours at the thermostat, but it sure is easy to burn 100 hours getting vera to work even semi correectly.
Personally I think this is a pretty stupid comparison. Most people, myself including, don’t have a choice what OS they run. I work for a Fortune-50 company that requires I use Windows-based software. I don’t have a choice. And I run Windows at home because I need to be compatible with work. I would dump Microsoft in a heartbeat if I could.
MCV is not Microsoft (although their attitude seems very MS-like at times). They are a small company in a niche market that will likely go out of business if they piss off their customer base too much. Most successful small companies are very responsive to the needs and concerns of their customers. That’s what makes them successful.
Best Home Automation shopping experience. Shop at Ezlo!
© 2024 Ezlo Innovation, All Rights Reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Forum Rules