Motion sensors?? What type is best?

Other Devices & Integrations Door Locks & Sensors
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After doing a LOT of reading here I think I’ll be going the DSC 1864 route and using wired motion sensors.
I do realize that probably limits the chances that I’ll get a good answer for this question here, but I’ll try anyway.

So what type of wired alarm motions work best for any type of movement?
I have no pets, but have small kids that may or may not be missed by the pet immune sensors.

I want to use them for triggering scenes that will turn on lights so I want them to be quite sensitive.
For instance someone sitting in bed reading a book (a real one with pages of course) could trip the sensor and keep the lights on.

I have looked at what is available and was looking at the 360 Degree style Bravo® 5 360° Ceiling-Mount PIR Motion Detectors | DSC Security Products | DSC
And the standard style without pet immunity Bravo® 201 PIR Motion Detectors | DSC Security Products | DSC

Any thoughts?

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someone sitting in bed reading a book ... could trip the sensor and keep the lights on.

Maybe the answer is not just a motion sensor, and maybe you don’t need a specially sensitive one (always a problem with false alarms). For reliable presence detection in a room with a door, take a look at the excellent “Wasp in a Box” algorithm here: http://www.dreamgreenhouse.com/projects/2013/presence/index.php#inferred

This can be easily implemented with a couple of scenes and a virtual switch (and, no doubt, @RichardTSchaefer can tell us how to implement this in PLEG!).

3

That is an interesting project. It could be useful overall, but I’m looking to use this for lighting in each individual room in my home.
Not going be able to tell if they have left the room. Hence the need for the motion detection.

My main use is aimed at small children who almost never remember to turn off lights. So while in room playing any motion keeps light on and a countdown timer will reset any time it is sensed. This is why I want super sensitive detection. When they run out to another room the countdown timer runs out and light goes off.

4

Hi Danbutter,

Thought I would give you my 10pence worth as have been working through thuis recently.

Firstly in my experiance you pay for what you get with PIR detectors.

I started with:
http://zwave-products.co.uk/shop/article_279/Everspring-SP103-Z-Wave-Motion-Sensor.html?sessid=iLdbFsReYn08wXPDT4IsZb7qyz07SZJGnXsvHuHJ5Njmor9aihMhJyvOwFuTdyBJ&shop_param=cid%3D79%26aid%3D279%26

The SP103 was good and was a good starting point but batteries dont last long at all and configureation is minimal - further more I found detections slow to reach Vera causing a delay in Light operation.

I then Upgraded to:
http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-everspring-hsp02-motion-detector

The HSP02 is far batter than the above mentioned PIR. It looks better, batteries have not been chnaged yet compared to 4/5 chnages in the others in the same time frame, responciveness to vera is excelent and there are many configureations you can set so this was a good option.

…I wanted more howevere…

Last upgrade and likly the way forward for me:

http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-express-controls-ezmotion-triple-sensor

Risky choice - read the forum! but for me I amd so far getting there. I like the fact this can be hard wired - meaning I cna install through out the home and not wory about chnaging batteries. Once i set this up there were many setting and sesitivity and reading to vera is great. The added light and temp senseors mean I can also control the rooms temperature and al;so weatehr the lights should in fact be comeing on - e.g no trigger if light level high enough.

Please please be ware however - my final choice of sensor although works for m y set up has many mnay issues if battery powered - perhaps buy one firast to test if right for you.

In terms of set upfor lightes etc. I have a timer for each room set at what ever works bets. The motion resets the time so contact motion keeps the timer running. lights ome on when timer restarts anf go off when time completes. When bet time mode is selected a scene mutes the time so lights dont come on.

The aboev has worked well for me for some time I just wish I had asked the question you had before I started my trial and error process of PIR’s.

Good luck and let us know how your set up goes.

LightsOn.

5
So what type of wired alarm motions work best for any type of movement?
I believe you can mix-n-match the Motion sensor brands within an Alarm Panel, as they're just contact-closures (that require power). In my case, I have a Paradox Alarm system, but GE Motion sensors.

This opens up a lot of possibilities, but at the same time probably opens up a lot more questions :wink:

From a practical standpoint, my GE’s fire off within 1 second of moving into the room, so “initial” detection works fairly well. I have one upstairs that doesn’t respond as well, but suspect that’s because I haven’t aimed it correctly, and they’re fairly directional.

The first problem is having them “keep” firing on small movements.

ie. Reading a book.

Here, this brand (not sure of specific model of GE) doesn’t retrip all the time, so it may not be sensitive enough for that type of use… or you’d need to set long inactivity timeouts before taking action.

I have several of the ceiling mount ones that I’m yet to install… I was planning on using these for areas like walk-in’s, where the space is constrained and motion would be easily detected.

The second problem is that they often “click” when triggered, or at least mine do. This is fine in hallways and family/living rooms, but would likely become annoying in Bedrooms.

Given this is a general requirement on Alarm systems and/or HA, you may get more experience by looking at some of those [external] forums as well. Folks here will only be able to report upon what they’ve specifically tried, but there’s decades of experience in the Alarm/Security world that you could likely also draw upon.

PS: My internal Motions are all wired. The wireless ones can often have “retrip” limiters in them to avoid burning the batteries. I have an external motion sensor that does that.

6

Interesting project. I was trying out my own motion senors for the house,
I hear non of them are actually good, there are problems with detection, problems with batteries as you mentioned,
or detection of small movements. I recently bought this model, https://www.mrosupply.com/lighting/lighting-control-systems/motion-sensors/1014851_atd1600w_hubbell-wiring-devices/,1600 Square Feet foot detection.
it was a good starting point, but then we bought a dog. Could you give me more info on how to apply timer for each room,
sounds like a good solution.

7

If you add a power supply to a zwave motion detector can it be forced to stay awake for faster responce?