I strongly echo - the cost of the controller is not an issue. An easy to use UI that works is what we need.
My Vera 3 is still going strong. The AltHue plug-in I installed tonight - flawless. Within minutes of installing it, it was controlling my 1 bulb (the other 3 are to come when I have time). Did not even try the Hue or Hue 2 plug-ins since this forum warned me it is broken. I was worried I would spend hours trying to get everything - but nope, working within minutes on the first try.
Well said, and some of the statements here by Melih along this line of hardware cost concern me.
When it was finally time for me to upgrade to UI7 back in January I went ahead and bought a VeraSecure instead of upgrading my Vera3. Why? Because I knew I would spend several days on the migration, and the risk that the Vera3 hardware was not robust enough to do everything I wanted under UI7 was not worth saving the $299 price of the VeraSecure.
(I actually planned ahead for the upgrade and got a Black Friday sale price - although truly I would have paid full price had it not been for the sale).
Well said, and some of the statements here by Melih along this line of hardware cost concern me.
When it was finally time for me to upgrade to UI7 back in January I went ahead and bought a VeraSecure instead of upgrading my Vera3. Why? Because I knew I would spend several days on the migration, and the risk that the Vera3 hardware was not robust enough to do everything I wanted under UI7 was not worth saving the $299 price of the VeraSecure.
(I actually planned ahead for the upgrade and got a Black Friday sale price - although truly I would have paid full price had it not been for the sale).[/quote]
Can someone explain what is wrong with making a better, faster, smaller more stable product and do so cheaper? These are basic pillars of improvements in technology! You don’t see Computers getting bigger, slower and more expensive do you??
Anyone who wants to pay the difference between old price and new price can make a donation to their favorite charity!
Well said, and some of the statements here by Melih along this line of hardware cost concern me.
When it was finally time for me to upgrade to UI7 back in January I went ahead and bought a VeraSecure instead of upgrading my Vera3. Why? Because I knew I would spend several days on the migration, and the risk that the Vera3 hardware was not robust enough to do everything I wanted under UI7 was not worth saving the $299 price of the VeraSecure.
(I actually planned ahead for the upgrade and got a Black Friday sale price - although truly I would have paid full price had it not been for the sale).[/quote]
Can someone explain what is wrong with making a better, faster, smaller more stable product and do so cheaper? These are basic pillars of improvements in technology! You don’t see Computers getting bigger, slower and more expensive do you??
Anyone who wants to pay the difference between old price and new price can make a donation to their favorite charity![/quote]
I think everybody would go crazy with better, faster, smaller, more stable and cheaper. Unfortunately for a lot of people on this board, it has been promised a million times and has never come to fruition.
One factor i haven’t seen metioned is the lifespan of the new controllers.
This is usually a big downside to the cheaper sort of consumer electronics, where you almost have to count in a replacement after 1-2 years. I would always go for the more expensive alternative if it promised a longer usable life.
HA controllers usually have a protected life on some shelf indoors, and consdering the reasonably low performance requirements, it should be no problem to keep it running for 5-10 years.
Not saying this is a problem for Vera or eZLO, i’ just interested in your thougts on it.
@Melih I think that some of us are concerned that you will have trouble making enough money to continue software development if you start selling the controllers to cheep.
If you have now doubled the development resources you will have to make double the profit of each sold device.
What people are saying is that if you have good “stable” controller(s) to sell you will not have to keep the price unnecessary low to be able to sell devices anyway.
[quote=“korttoma, post:186, topic:199656”]@Melih I think that some of us are concerned that you will have trouble making enough money to continue software development if you start selling the controllers to cheep.
If you have now doubled the development resources you will have to make double the profit of each sold device.
What people are saying is that if you have good “stable” controller(s) to sell you will not have to keep the price unnecessary low to be able to sell devices anyway.[/quote]
That is a very valid point.
On the other hand, if they succeed in creating better, faster, smaller, more stable and cheaper, they will increase market share. This market is going to be huge going forward, so the loss in margin can easily be compensated with volume. And that is probably the right way to go if you want to rule the world. Of course, both volume and high margin is even better, but this is probably not the right kind of market for that, besides it is very hard to achieve.
[quote=“Forzaalfa, post:185, topic:199656”]One factor i haven’t seen metioned is the lifespan of the new controllers.
This is usually a big downside to the cheaper sort of consumer electronics, where you almost have to count in a replacement after 1-2 years. I would always go for the more expensive alternative if it promised a longer usable life.
HA controllers usually have a protected life on some shelf indoors, and consdering the reasonably low performance requirements, it should be no problem to keep it running for 5-10 years.
Not saying this is a problem for Vera or eZLO, i’ just interested in your thougts on it.[/quote]
Because our business model is NOT making money from hardware, its our interest to give you something that is rock solid, cost effective, fast and lasts a long time!
[quote=“korttoma, post:186, topic:199656”]@Melih I think that some of us are concerned that you will have trouble making enough money to continue software development if you start selling the controllers to cheep.
If you have now doubled the development resources you will have to make double the profit of each sold device.
What people are saying is that if you have good “stable” controller(s) to sell you will not have to keep the price unnecessary low to be able to sell devices anyway.[/quote]
Thank you, I think the business model of making money from hardware will make less money in the long run as a controller provider. Its the wrong business model.
I think that if you do not havce a complete working eco system you will fail. Meaning that currently the hardware is fine and if you choose a model to make your software “hardware undependable” this will introduce all other kinds of problems and issues.
It would be best to fix the pile you have now instead of trying to be the next Elon.
Although, underpowered in the grand scheme of things, it was more than adequate when UI5 and earlier was deployed. It wasn’t until recent years there was a disastrous shift in philosophy that lead to the demise of Vera. Just fixing that mess sould be Paramount above all else. Selling a new product when the current base is vocal about the problems of the current product line is not reassuring to potential buyers.
Unfortunately I think you’re right. It will be very difficult to build a business model based on just selling hardware a few couple of times, this will not provide a stable income for the company and It’s the same for apps. The solution, of course, is to have a service model connected that provides a stable income to the company and developers.
I bought a Vera to stay away from monthly or yearly fees but realized that this model just provides us with insufficient and unstable updates, slow inclusion of new hardware, probably due to lack of resources (although the support is +1).
I’m well in to the DIY with Pi’s and Ardunio’s but for my home I, and family :), want a stable system that dosen’t need a lot of attention and fixing all the time. But there are some important things to consider: stability, security, local and friendly. Then, I can also consider a service model with reasonable fees.
I completely agree. But lots of people on this forum are die-hard set against monthly fees. If somehow the switch to a modest monthly fee makes Vera better, stronger, faster, I am open it to…
In any system if you assume you will make one part of it crap, of course its bound to fail. I don’t understand why you are making the assumption that hardware will be crap?
I completely agree. But lots of people on this forum are die-hard set against monthly fees. If somehow the switch to a modest monthly fee makes Vera better, stronger, faster, I am open it to…[/quote]
Agreed, with one great big giant “but”: as long as having a monthly fee doesn’t come with a requirement for Vera to be connected to the Internet at all times, or (worse) shifting to a partly cloud based service. Vera runs my home and holds very sensitive data, I do not want anyone to mess with that box. So it lives in utter isolation.
How many times do you hear HOME AUTOMATION people say “I am fine with less capabilities”?!?
It’s entirely antithetical to the nature of your target market. These are people who want to do more. Specifically, they want their gear to do more. A good zwave door lock is $200.
Why make a $200 lock dependant on a $50 controller? It’s like buying a $300k semi to haul freight and hiring a 16yro with a learner’s permit be cause he can be paid $10/hr.
The engineering term is “Future proofing.”
How many of the problems people have with vera upgrades are because of space issues? How many IoT devices can’t be updated because they don’t have enough ram to apply updates?
We expect to extend out HA systems to the limits of our budgets and imagination. The budget limit impacts the client devices over the controller. But the controller limits our imagination.
As for funding, I suggest the HomeSeer/Apple model or the ISY model. Either provide a specific period of time you will provide updates before charging for an OS upgrade and require apps in the app store to match the current OS version or you charge an annual fee for the cloud services (including Alexa, notifications, etc)
I suspect the vera customer base will be more understanding of the the OS upgrade model than the annual fees. To be honest, if you had a 3-ish year support window AND had a good migration path, lots of people would upgrade to newer hardware.
Why? Moore’s Law.
People expect that future hardware is more powerful than present hardware at roughly the same price. Even if they don’t know it as Moore’s Law, they know the iPhone upgrade cycle. Better camera, faster response, more apps, etc. And the phones are about the same price (see iPhone XR).
I see many assumptions here. Would be nice to get more clarity on the way forward with respect to the business model. And please be clear. I myself do not mind paying for a plugin but I do not like monthly fees (clear enough?) .
In any system if you assume you will make one part of it crap, of course its bound to fail. I don’t understand why you are making the assumption that hardware will be crap?[/quote]
Did not assume hardware will be crap.
Stated that if you make it hardware independent you will introduce other integration amd compatibility problems.
In any system if you assume you will make one part of it crap, of course its bound to fail. I don’t understand why you are making the assumption that hardware will be crap?[/quote]
Did not assume hardware will be crap.
Stated that if you make it hardware independent you will introduce other integration amd compatibility problems.[/quote]
Our hardware will be designed to work with every commercial device right out of the box! That is our vision. End user’s shouldn’t have to mess around to get devices working…it should just work!
In any system if you assume you will make one part of it crap, of course its bound to fail. I don’t understand why you are making the assumption that hardware will be crap?[/quote]
Did not assume hardware will be crap.
Stated that if you make it hardware independent you will introduce other integration amd compatibility problems.[/quote]
Our hardware will be designed to work with every commercial device right out of the box! That is our vision. End user’s shouldn’t have to mess around to get devices working…it should just work![/quote]
HAC Plug and play? Like the 90’s?
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