Micasaverde, I am disappointed (edited after some reflection).

Community Playground General Discussions
1

I bought my Vera 1 directly from Micasaverde’s site in early 2010 (February) to ensure i got the most current version.

Apparently, Micasaverde had already started selling Vera 2 without making any announcement and sent me a Vera 1 anyway.

They sent me a Vera1 with a European power adapter

They took 5-6 weeks to mail me a correct power brick.

The device has been pretty unpredictable, and has gone through several firmwares in the past six months to get things working. I think installing three to four firmware updates only to learn that the device STILL WILL NOT DO what the videos and literature on your website claims is a bit over the line.

Recently, Micasaverde announced that the firmware I’ve been waiting for will not be fully functional with Vera 1, as portions of it will be focused on Vera 2 and the UI as a whole will really require more memory to run acceptably than Vera1 has. I think that is a pretty clear signal of where things are going with Vera1.

For $90.00 they will send me a new unit to replace the unit that they will likely be abandoning as they have proven they do not have the resources to technically support two pieces of hardware. The very same unit that they shipped me to clear out their back inventory will be completely obsolete before it came close to what they promised in their videos.

I recognize it is just a consumer electronic device but this is pretty bad for customer loyalty. Those defending the ability to buy the new device at a reduced price are looking at this device as a hobby, not a consumer home automation system. Imagine if the Apple Ipad 1 never quite displayed the internet right, and apple offered to sell you Ipad 2 (which they had already been giving to random people at the same price as Ipad 1) at half price. . .

As for those that advocate contacting Micasaverde prior to posting a thread like this, normally I would agree totally. Here, I don’t. If I had come to this forum and read more honest assessments of the Vera as a consumer device prior to my purchase it may have saved me over $1000.00 in Zwave gear.

Micasaverde, you should consider reimbursing me the $90 for beta testing last years model, purchased this year, at this year’s price. I know cash must be very, very tight, but at a minimum, if you can’t reimburse those that you already misled with your website, you should take those videos and your literature down until you can do a website that is compliant with the FTC’s Truth in Advertising Law:

[i]FTC Truth In Advertising Law

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus35.shtm

I would point to the following components:

"What makes an advertisement deceptive?

According to the FTC’s Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that:

* Is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and
* Is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product."

"How does the FTC determine if an ad is deceptive?

  The FTC looks at the ad from the point of view of the "reasonable consumer" - the typical person looking at the ad. Rather than focusing on certain words, the FTC looks at the ad in context - words, phrases, and pictures - to determine what it conveys to consumers."[/i]

And finally, some Emails to backup my “rant”:

[b]Some Interesting Emails:

1- When I bought the Vera1:

Order Confirmation from MiCasaVerde Shop

XXXX XXXXXX

Thanks for shopping with us today!
The following are the details of your order.

Order Number: 9XX
Date Ordered: Sunday 14 February, 2010
Detailed Invoice:
LINK REMOVED

Products

1 x Vera = $299.00
Z-Wave option U.S. Z-Wave

Sub-Total: $299.00
United States Postal Service (1 x 4.00lbs) (Priority Mail (2 - 3 days)):
$13.80
Total: $312.80[/b]

Here is an email regarding the adapter and the V1 vs V2. I had no idea what a big deal the V2 would be at the time, notice she doesn’t address the V2 issue at all. Having not done enough research, I had no idea that the platforms were so different:

[b]Hello XXXX,

I’m sorry that it took me so long to get back to you. We have been trying to resolve this issue with the manufacturer who has agreed to send us US power sources for these units. We expect to receive these early next week and will ship one out to you as soon as possible.

I’m sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you. Please let us know if we can further assist you.

Sincerely,
XXXXXXX

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:01 PM, not12bhere xxxx@xxx.com wrote:
XXXX,

    I bought directly from your company because I understood that a V2 was
    being shipped. I received a V1, which is not a huge issues, but it came
    with a EUROPEAN style dc power supply . . .obviously I won't make my
    install date.
    
    Thank you for the help in advance,
    xxxx
2

Actually they started shipping V2’s when they still had V1’s and some people were requesting to get the V1 instead. I’m also sure at the time they didn’t know that the new firmware was going to need the larger amount of memory to have all the functions since they had not even started on it until March.

3

Make that 2, here. I ordered my VERA March 10, 2010…well after the Vera 2 had first started shipping. I also sent a note to Micasaverde customer service on March 16th about receiving Vera 1 instead of Vera 2 and never got a response.

Google Checkout Hello Mi Casa Verde, BRADLEY SANFORD has sent you the following message:

Question regarding order #995:
I received my Vera today, and it appears to be version 1 hardware. I’m already having issues with a finicky dongle, and would prefer to have this hardware switched out for a version 2. Can you advise if this will be possible? Thanks in advance for your help! Brad Sanford

I sent second message March 24th:

Originally sent March 16, 2010, but never received a response.

Question regarding order #995:
I received my Vera today, and it appears to be version 1 hardware. I’m already having issues with a finicky dongle, and would prefer to have this hardware switched out for a version 2. Can you advise if this will be possible? Thanks in advance for your help!

Brad Sanford

I got a reply to this message from Kelsey Fourdyce, Marketing & Sales Manager, saying:

Hi Brad,

I am sorry for the slow response. Our shipping manager is out of town and will be back on Monday. If you need help getting set up, you can email support@micasaverde.com for assistance.

Best Regards,
Kelsey

I sent that note the same day and never received a response. (At this point, not surprised after not receiving any responses to any previous communications.) I finally gave up at that time and decided that since my Vera 1 unit didn’t seem to be having anymore dongle problems at that time, and since I had already set up my entire Z-wave network on Vera’s platform and blitzed all the work I had done with my Harmony remotes, that I would tough it out. And now, after waiting and waiting and waiting for the blessed UI4 to come out and fix some of the problems I would have later on, I get a message saying that MCV will “subsidize” my cost for upgrade to a Vera 2 for $89.00?!?!? Are you kidding me?

not12bhere, sounds like you and I may need to do some chatting and maybe get together with some other Vera 1 customers who got shafted and explore our options as far as getting some sort of “class” together, if you know what I mean? False advertising for what Vera would and would not do (thankfully, I have all of this printed from their website from the time period when I ordered), documented slow/no response from “support”, and now a firmware update (that is required to make my Kwikset lock work) that isn’t fully supported on the HW version I happened to get stuck with (still not sure how this happened, since I know Vera 2 had already started shipping at this point). Oh, and don’t forget the guarantee that Vera will work with any Z-wave product or your money back! I am L-I-V-I-D! >:(

4

Oh, and if the “class” option doesn’t pan out, I still have the Better Business Bureau for Texas (my state) and Nevada (where they are incorporated) as well as the Attorney General’s office for both states. That’s enough to keep them busy for several months! (Not to mention all of the great places online to post reviews about the product and my buying experience!)

Also include in my arsenal of documentation a printout from today…still showing version 1 hardware on it…with stuff the daggum thing never did do (and now never will). This time, failing to update their own website and documentation will serve to bite them squarely in the a__!

5

I’ve had my hard times with Vera in the past so this may seem crazy but why is it everyone thinks sue, sue, sue. It won’t get you anywhere quickly and a class action will never get you what you want. It will however make a few lawyers wealthy and might get you a minuscule amount of money or possibly a subscription to wired magazine but that’s about it. At worst it may also put them out of business and then we are all screwed for future support. I’m pretty sure your system will work just fine for you in the near future with either box. For the record my Vera 1 works very well now. I may upgrade just becuase I would want to get rid of the dongle to have one less thing in the open in my vacation rentals.

6

Sigh… I love America, but seriously… Law Suit, Cmon!

You want to sue them because they do an unprecedented thing and offer everyone an upgrade for the cost of the unit?

Brad, I thought you were selling everything anyway?! The 101 bucks plus the ABBA CD still stands! :wink:

7

Why is it that people have to resort to options like this to make companies do the stand-up thing and make “valued customers” feel as if they are valued and received what was advertised and what they paid for?

And, yes, I do have to have this updated firmware to make the Kwikset lock that is “guaranteed” to work with Vera work.

Did neither person who has replied read that I had already asked for Vera 2 when I bought the thing directly from MCV’s store, just like OP did? And that they have never been good at communicating, and many times just ignore emails and other communications? So, it obviously will take something of this magnitude to get their attention.

Why is it that it’s a full-time job now to be a consumer?

Maybe my outlook would be different it this wasn’t the second Z-wave gateway company to totally shaft me. First time around was with Hawking. A month after I bought their “Home Remote Gateway”, they came out with “Home Remote Gateway Pro” (which came with a monthly subscription fee) and stopped supporting the model I bought immediately.

This certainly makes it look like UI4 was nothing more than a ploy to sell a newer, bigger, better unit. I can’t believe there are not other Vera 1 people who feel screwed by this whole thing?

Strangely, I don’t know you, but I like you. You’re very good at adding a little humor in at just the right moment to help bring things to a more pleasant environment. And, yes, I was seriously considering selling everything at one point out of pure frustration with this whole mess. Unfortunately, I have thousands of dollars worth of this equipment, and I don’t really feel like taking another hit by selling it for garage sale $.25 / $.50 / $1.00 prices.

Keeping people on the edge of their seats (people you already know are Vera 1 users), waiting for the miraculous and marvelous UI4…and then announcing right before it’s release (presumably) that “oh, by the way, it won’t work with your old unit”…doesn’t that seem a little chicken-s___?

8

There is no limitation on the Vera1 running UI4!

By the way I also had a hawking gateway but It was my own stupidity for buying it without doing some research and I’m glad I ebayed in favor of buying a Vera almost a year to this day.

9

[quote=“strangely, post:8, topic:166305”]There is no limitation on the Vera1 running UI4!

By the way I also had a hawking gateway but It was my own stupidity for buying it without doing some research and I’m glad I ebayed in favor of buying a Vera almost a year to this day.[/quote]

Ummm, the announcement as I read it:

In 2008 and 2009, Mi Casa Verde sold a "Vera 1" model that included a removable dongle. In January 2010, we began shipping "Vera 2" that comes with a battery pack and built-in Z-Wave.

We now have a new version of our software (firmware) that includes a new user interface called UI4. UI4 supports the latest Z-Wave devices and has several new enhanced features. We did our best to make it backwards-compatible so existing Vera 1 users could benefit from it as well. However, Vera 1 users will experience some limitations. For example, the new setup wizard is built around Vera 2, as is the new documentation. Vera 2 also has more memory in it and is able to run a newer version of the Linux operating system than Vera 1.

To overcome these limitations and provide good customer service, Mi Casa Verde will be subsidizing the cost to swap Vera 1 with Vera 2 for $89. Vera 1 customers can visit this page http://shop.micasaverde.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=100&products_id=221 and obtain a Vera 2 for $119. If we receive your Vera 1 back within 4 weeks, we will refund $30 back to your credit card.

Where do you get that there will not be limitations with Vera 1 running UI4? That’s the whole purpose of the “exchange program”. It says right there, “Vera 1 users will experience some limitations”. It also says, “Vera 2 also has more memory…and is able to run a newer version of the Linux operating system than Vera 1”.

I didn’t buy the Hawking unit just a year or so ago. I bought it several years back…back when it was the only option. I’m pretty sure back before Vera was even out there. It certainly wasn’t that I hadn’t done my research.

10

The limitation is currently only the wizard which is designed to be tailored for the Vera 2 for obvious reasons, its nothing to do with memory footprints etc. There are currently no other limitations other than an older OS which.

11

Oh yeah, let’s not forget about Logitech’s fiasco with the Harmony, either. I bought into that one first. In fact, my whole Z-wave journey started with a Harmony 890. I ended up buying two lamp modules to work with it. They did okay, so I bought about 30 switches, another 10-12 lamp modules, some appliance modules, etc. Then, when the Harmony showed it’s limitations of only supporting 32 nodes (which resulted in class-action settlement for false advertising, etc.), I tried the Hawking gateway (purchased directly from Hawking). Which meant I had to give up the regular Harmony 890 and buy a Harmony 890 Pro (to be able to use it as a secondary controller). Hawking knew what they were doing to people like me when they sold the non-pro model a month before they came out with the new one…they just wanted to get rid of old stock. MCV apparently did the exact same thing. The difference is that I knew about Vera 2 when I received my Vera 1 unit, I asked MCV to resolve the problem then, and they ignored the request.

12

While i respect all the replies, i dont think a class action lawsuit over micasaverde’s misrepresentation is a worthy endeavor for our time or investment. i do think continuing to ship v1 to customers ordering from their site when v2 was already in the distribution chain and being given to customers via resellers was wrong. that is now compounded by their need to dump the v1 update path. basically i paid 300 to beta test their hardware and alpha test their software. the website was massively misleading, but i should have done more research in forums before buying.

as for the better business bureau, i think making a complaint now would be inappropriate. i think the appropriate use of late v1 buyer’s efforts would be taking the time to write accurate and fair reviews of micasaverde to insure that nobody believes Micasaverde like we did.

what a dissapointment.

13

It seems we led a parallel path with the Harmony and the Hawking, although I never bought the 890 pro!

I’m actually thankful to Logitech in a way (despite their pitiful software support) in that it got me into home automation…

When I bought the 890, I had no idea what Z wave was and after owning it for 6 months or so I noticed the logo, and after a bit of Googleing, before I knew it, I’d bought a couple of switches!

@not12bhere, Brad,

Its funny how my view (and many others) is that different to both of yours! I think its third time lucky for me! Don’t get me wrong, its not perfect but for the price its pretty good.

14

Strangely, that’s where my last bit of posting (before today) channeled from. My frustration and disappointment with Z-wave in general. I absolutely LOVE the concept, but hate the execution of every single company I have come into contact with. Everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and advertise “Speaks Z-wave”, but nobody wants to put the time or money into making a product that I consider ready for the general consumer market. No wonder I’ve never seen Z-wave anything on a Best Buy shelf. People would be returning this stuff faster than they could sell it.

This ain’t my first time at the rodeo. I forgot to mention Intermatic, and the fiasco with the HA18 and HA14 (both recall and availability thereafter), and with the original HA06 dimmers that had a bad batch…6 of my 30 original switches were part of that batch and had to be replaced under warranty. I have since had 3-4 lamp dimmers that have gone out and I haven’t fooled with warranty replacement of them because I bought enough extras.

I had a friend that got me into this whole mess…beginning with the original Harmony 890. Then we found the lamp modules. Then I found the wall switches and various and assorted other things. Then the Hawking Gateway. Then the Harmony 890 Pro. Then the Vera. The difference between him and me is that after a while, he learned his lesson and stopped buying this crap. I continued to search for a solution that would make the crap I already had work the way it was supposed to…and in the process ended up with more…well…crap. Shame on me for that.

15

Why argue and complain…
Just get a second one, keep the original, and have a spare if something ever happens…

16

Brad if you really think you have been deceived by MCV. Maybe you should take legal action in a different way. The FTC regulates false advertising and I do believe everyone on here would agree that there was some of that especially in the early days of the product. If I were MCV and thought I may be investigated for false advertising I would think they would try to make their customers happy and quickly before it came to that.
Maybe the fair thing to do is have them do a break even trade for the V2 or in your case they probably should trade it for free given that you contacted them from the start about it. It is kind of funny because people that complained that they received a V2 and wanted a V1 they just told them to send it back and it would be traded out. Maybe you should have kept on them about it at the time and you would have had a V2 now. Why don’t you just email again and explain the situation and see what happens.
Good luck.

17

I guess it is all how you look at it. I am perfectly happy with my Vera 1 and feel lucky that I got one before Vera 2 came out back in late 2009. From what I understand he memory differences will only keep me from running large plug-ins on Vera 1. Heck I’d be perfectly happy going back to UI2 on Vera 1, it was stable and looked great, but I am currently running UI4 with no problems.

I find it funny that people praise Apple for doing things like this. My friend bought a Mac Mini in early 2009, then I finally caved and bought a brand new, upgraded Mac Mini 6 months after that, just to have them come out with a totally reinvented one in early 2010 (and they added an SD card slot, Apple’s famous for adding something everyone else has had for years and calling it a feature (and famous for defending the lack of something by questioning the need for one)).

MCV will probably trade out the Vera 1 for a Vera 2 depending on the case and if you can show email correspondence to that affect. But I plan on keeping Vera 1 and picking up the upgrade offer. Any threat of legal action or reports to agencies is just going to hurt the only Z-Wave gateway company making a go of this. Let them respond to you before going to extremes (I know it takes a while to get a response).

18

Okay… time to chime in… How many of us soaked a small fortune into X10 years ago only to find that it got real crazy, unstable and unreliable after you filled your house with x10 devices and then added some line noise when CFL bulbs came out. I have a box full of X10 crap that I ended up ripping out.

I stayed away from HA devices for awhile and then jumped on the Vera/ZWave train and I think I will ride this one out.

(Or how about the early Sony Betamax owners…) Its the way it goes with the advance of things.

IMHO ‘affordable’ Home Automation is just getting off the ground and the early adopters will feel some growing pains. Yes the stuff is out there for sale to the public, but that doesn’t mean its going to be a smooth ride. I knew going in that this was not a 100% finished product, but it looked (and still looks) a lot more promising and affordable than anything else out there.

Yes vera 1 owners I do see your point and I see your complaints, I got lucky, I almost insisted on a vera1 when I bought mine but found a way that the vera2 would work for me. (You can search my EARLY posts on this topic).

19
(Or how about the early Sony Betamax owners...) Its the way it goes with the advance of things.

Or more reasently HD DVD. Those poor people that bought the HD DVD’s got totaly screwed. I knew better than to buy either that or Blue Ray until it worked it self out. I’m happy it only took a short time and that the better of the two won. At least your V1 will still work.

20

IMHO, I think this company needs to slow its roll a bit. They have over sold this product to the point of being liable and I would be very surprised if they don’t start seeing some law suites. I don’t see anything wrong with putting out a product that is basically a Beta…as long as you let people know what they’re getting in to. If they had been honest from the start, this board wouldn’t be so full of people upset about issues like this (and the lack of support).

If I had ordered a product from a company with the expectation of receiving the latest greatest and received “last years model” I would be mad as heck too. Then to be told that the product you didn’t want to begin with won’t be fully supported in the future AND you need to pay to upgrade to the product you had originally tried to purchase…ugh. You are right to go to the BBB and states attorney general if MCV doesn’t resolve this for you.