Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat

Other Devices & Integrations Climate Control & Temperature Sensors
61

alien8er - Thanks for the feedback, it’s wasn’t easy but we’re seeing now that it was worth it… To answer your question I would need to know the strenght of your baseboards. You can certainly put more than one on a single thermostat, but the combined wattage can not exceed 3500 watts. So you could have two 1500 watts units linked to the same controller, but not two 2000 watts units…

Basically, Caleo has the same specs as the thermostats you find in store, therefore it should simply swap with your existing device.

goldbug - Don’t take my word for it, by all means look it up. It’s not as if we haven’t…

62

spot on lodup29

i considerd that option too. costly and cumbersome to imstall. plus the thermostat works on AA batteries.

the best option is still the aube relays and 24v thermostats ( anyone got a better option?) also with the aube relays i can put one on the water heater and water pump so i can swithc them on and off remotely too. the only drawback i need to install several relays and fish a thermostat wire to the rooms i want to control. not easy to retrofit…

63

[quote=“goldbug, post:62, topic:179652”]plus the thermostat works on AA batteries.[/quote] Yeah I wonder about the autonomy and what happens when the thermostat is out of battery. So far all I got from Honeywell is [quote=“Honeywell Customer care.”]We apologize to inform you that we do not have any battery operated line voltage thermostat.[/quote] Still I guess it’s worth asking for them to design one (I mean not a battery operated line voltage thermostat but a drop-in substitute for line-voltage baseboard heater thermostats with remote capabilities and integration with other home automation systems). [quote=“goldbug, post:62, topic:179652”]the best option is still the aube relays and 24v thermostats[/quote] Indeed the RC840T looks fairly easy to retrofit. Which thermostat do you have in mind?

64

Hi T1000,

Thanks for putting this together. I backed the Kickstarter (how do I get more than 6?). I took this for granted but would like to confirm. Does the thermostat support variable output or is it just on/off?

65

Hello AgentPerfect,
First, thanks for being a backer ! We have updated the rewards choice as you’re not the only one asking for more than what we had offered. If you want to update your pledge and reward, go right ahead as changes should be up by now.
Secondly, I understand your question as referring to “pulsing” or cycling the load on varying time lapses. We do that like a lot of electronic thermostat as it’s a much more efficient way to maintain a room temperature without a constant overshoot or undershoot. Someone the other day was asking whether we’d allow for the setpoint to be a variable (i.e. between 19.5 to 21.5) to account for room activity. We haven’t yet validated if that’s a good idea or not, but if it is, we 'll make it part of the next revision… Caleo updates OTA, just like your phone !

If that’s not the answer your were looking for, let me know !

M.

66

lodup29 - that is the right relay. not sure what is the best configuration and the best thermostats. this install is for a cottage. i was planning to install the aube relays near the pannel in dedicated boxes and attach wifi controlers to them so i can place the thermostats in the rooms i want to control temperature. i also want to install on/off switches to my hot water tank and water pump amd control them remotely too?

the other more expansive option is to use the honeywell econnect devices which have the relays and the wifi controlers… just more expansive…

still not sure which thermostats i will use

67

@T1000 Since english is not one of my strenght I want to make sure about a thing. Reading all the post what comes out is that in the unlikely event that you need to shutdown the main server or in the event we do not want to rely on that server we can use a plan B with a local “server” ? If so will this solution be available at the launch ?

Thanks

68

Thank you for the good explanation of the bussiness model. Very interesting product and original bussiness model around it. I am sure that Hydro-Qu?bec would be interested. I am already a bi-energie client in my main house, who is control by a honeywell wifi thermostat in parallel with a Vera controller. I miss a basic integration with my vera controller, but it is still workable.

My second house is also Vera control but with basebord heating and i am looking for some form of remote control over the heating. I have no problem with cloud control but a basic integration with the local vera controller would be nice. Anyway, i will be in for your product.

I am not sure about it, but if the devices could register on the local home network as a uPnP devices, they could expose a basic set of control and sensors that could be tap-in by Vera local controller without disrupting the general cloud framework and with a very loose (and cheap) integration dev and low security concerns.

Good day

69

@sturgeon86, this is correct. The capacity to communicate with another server already exists and will be there, in the app, at launch. Let me point out however that we will not provide an offline application to go along with it. We’ll collaborate with whoever wants to work on it, but our plate is more than full for now.

@sturgeon86, votre int?rpr?taion est correcte. La possibilit? de nommer un serveur diff?rent du n?tre sur l’appareil existe d?j?, et sera inclus dans l’app au moment du lancement. Par contre, nous ne fabriquerons aucune application “offline” pour l’accompagner, du moins pour l’instant. Nous serons heureux de collaborer avec quiconque voudrait s’aventurer ? la faire, mais en ce qui nous concerne, nous n’avons ni le temps ni les ressources pour y travailler.

Merci !

70

[quote=“T1000”]@sturgeon86, this is correct. The capacity to communicate with another server already exists and will be there, in the app, at launch. Let me point out however that we will not provide an offline application to go along with it. We’ll collaborate with whoever wants to work on it, but our plate is more than full for now.

@sturgeon86, votre int?rpr?taion est correcte. La possibilit? de nommer un serveur diff?rent du n?tre sur l’appareil existe d?j?, et sera inclus dans l’app au moment du lancement. Par contre, nous ne fabriquerons aucune application “offline” pour l’accompagner, du moins pour l’instant. Nous serons heureux de collaborer avec quiconque voudrait s’aventurer ? la faire, mais en ce qui nous concerne, nous n’avons ni le temps ni les ressources pour y travailler.

Merci ![/quote]
I understand that you won’t provide an application, but I don’t need it, but can you provide the basic format of each command the thermostat can do?

Like, what is the format to send a heat command to 21’ C, turn off heat, etc.

Do you have a pdf or something? That it easy to create my own app or vera plugin.

Thanks!

71

peterluc8080 - Good question, I’m not sure of what we can, can’t, will and won’t release. That’s not exactly my department, so I’ll have to ask. I know there have been discussions about what parts can be made public, let me see if we know where we stand on this…

72

[quote=“peterluc8080, post:70, topic:179652”]I understand that you won’t provide an application, but I don’t need it, but can you provide the basic format of each command the thermostat can do?

Like, what is the format to send a heat command to 21’ C, turn off heat, etc.[/quote] It’s probably not as easy as that. First of all I believe that the server publishes the information to be fetched by the thermostat. If the thermostat can’t connect over HTTP and that a certificate provided by a trusted authority is required by the thermostat things are not looking good. Then the information encapsulated into HTTPS is also re-encrypted a second time, not sure in which way. If they are willing to document everything properly and that the amount of work appears reasonable I’d be willing to purchase a single thermostat and give it a try.

Ce n’est probablement pas aussi facile. Premierement je pense qu’un serveur HTTPS doit etre mis sur pied, ce dernier publiant de l’information recuperee par le thermostat. Si le thermostat ne peut se connecter par HTTP et qu’un certificat d’une autoritee reconnue est requis par le thermostat tu es mal barre. Ensuite l’information deja encapsulee en HTTPS est re-encryptee une second fois, je ne suis pas certain de quelle facon. Perso s’ils sont prets a documenter le tout et que le travail ne semble pas trop titanesque je serais pret a acheter un thermostat pour essayer.

73

Thanks! If I can at least send a heat command and the temperature to heat the room until it reach that number and turn it off. I will buy 5 for my condo.

Im able to write c, c++, php and java so that’s not a problem.

74

Did you received an answer?

75

Damn so close but no cigar. This product needs to be zigbee, BTLE or z-wave enabled to get traction in a smart home, for these reasons

1 People who buy this item are likely to own or purchase other smart items. Living in a wifi bubble is a dead end.

2 To recoup the high purchase cost of $125/node you need to promise savings, which means occupancy sensors and outdoor sensors to turn off the heat when needed and maintain the temperature better to allow a lower setpoint. Since you don’t make the sensors, and aeon labs and smartthings do, then it’s time to play nice.

3 Offering an HTTP API doesn’t work. The smart hub people won’t bother to integrate your thing with their thing because they don’t have the time, motivation or resources. As an owner of multiple supposedly-mainstream smart things I have learned the hard way that a native radio protocol is mandatory in any new purchase going forward, otherwise you end up with a load of crap that doesn’t play together waiting for some sketchy port of 50% the supported functions promised in some forum post somewhere. Your smart dimming RGB bulb becomes on/off with no status reporting for example.

4 Ditch the stand alone app approach. A smart home is made of more than one function grouped together and working in symphony. I don’t want to pull my phone out to adjust the temperature when I already have a $30 dumb stat waiting the wall with a nice chunky knob to twiddle, it’s a step backwards in ergonomics. I should pull my phone out to monitor usage, PID curves, comparisons with well insulated buildings, things a knob doesn’t convey. That’s how you open wallets.

5 The screen doesn’t need to be colour. I have iPhones for that. Whatever.

6 emphasize if you use a triac and if you offer modeling for the house/room.

Cheers

76

Well put joylove. I have to say even though I am just getting started with smart things, I am a little disappointed in this as well. The super high upfront cost immediately takes me out of the game as well as the wi-fi bubble, lol.

I am no expert by any means, but it cannot be that difficult to develop something like a TH-114 that is z-wave capable.

77

[quote=“joylove, post:75, topic:179652”]Damn so close but no cigar. This product needs to be zigbee, BTLE or z-wave enabled to get traction in a smart home, for these reasons

1 People who buy this item are likely to own or purchase other smart items. Living in a wifi bubble is a dead end.

2 To recoup the high purchase cost of $125/node you need to promise savings, which means occupancy sensors and outdoor sensors to turn off the heat when needed and maintain the temperature better to allow a lower setpoint. Since you don’t make the sensors, and aeon labs and smartthings do, then it’s time to play nice.

3 Offering an HTTP API doesn’t work. The smart hub people won’t bother to integrate your thing with their thing because they don’t have the time, motivation or resources. As an owner of multiple supposedly-mainstream smart things I have learned the hard way that a native radio protocol is mandatory in any new purchase going forward, otherwise you end up with a load of crap that doesn’t play together waiting for some sketchy port of 50% the supported functions promised in some forum post somewhere. Your smart dimming RGB bulb becomes on/off with no status reporting for example.

4 Ditch the stand alone app approach. A smart home is made of more than one function grouped together and working in symphony. I don’t want to pull my phone out to adjust the temperature when I already have a $30 dumb stat waiting the wall with a nice chunky knob to twiddle, it’s a step backwards in ergonomics. I should pull my phone out to monitor usage, PID curves, comparisons with well insulated buildings, things a knob doesn’t convey. That’s how you open wallets.

5 The screen doesn’t need to be colour. I have iPhones for that. Whatever.

6 emphasize if you use a triac and if you offer modeling for the house/room.

Cheers[/quote]

+1
what’s i trying to say in my first post.

78

Kinda disappointing.

[ul][li]No local control (did I miss it?), so when wifi is down I have no control over thermostat? I would say this is VERY bad UI[/li]
[li]Wifi only and phone only client, no zwave, no zigbee, means there is no integration into existing smarthubs, why I want another standalone thermostat, why it is better than programmable sitting on my wall already, the only reason I would ditch existing one if I can get some additional benefits, smart automation, graphs. Bad UI again[/li]
[li]If for any reason you will decide to pivot, will get out of money or whatever happens to your cloud, I have the dead piece of tech with no way to use it[/li]
[li]And WAF is nowhere close as well[/li][/ul]

And why you call it smart? There is nothing smart in having it operated from the phone, it is just a remote connection.

If you create zwave line voltage thermostat, I would jump on it (make it two please), I even don’t need it to be programmable, but buying something for 125CAD and then creating my own plugin for Vera is not exactly how I want to spend my time and money.

Sorry, I will pass this time

79

[quote=“ipstas, post:78, topic:179652”]No local control (did I miss it?), so when wifi is down I have no control over thermostat?[/quote] There’s a touchscreen. They don’t say what level of control it provides. All we know is that you can select an alternative server from there but I would assume it provides locally the same level of control as the one provided through the web server.[quote=“ipstas, post:78, topic:179652”]Wifi only and phone only client, no zwave, no zigbee, means there is no integration into existing smarthubs[/quote] There’s no reason why most home automation hubs wouldn’t be able to talk over IP to the thermostat or server provided that the hub is connected to the LAN or WAN respectively.[quote=“ipstas, post:78, topic:179652”]why it is better than programmable sitting on my wall already[/quote] Well it does provide facilities to remotely control and program your thermostat from the WAN. No other line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat provides such facilities.[quote=“ipstas, post:78, topic:179652”]And why you call it smart? There is nothing smart in having it operated from the phone, it is just a remote connection.[/quote] I believe it’s not operated (hopefully) but rather programmed from a phone. It’s just as smart as a programmable thermostat with added remote and demand/response facilities.[quote=“ipstas, post:78, topic:179652”]If for any reason you will decide to pivot, will get out of money or whatever happens to your cloud, I have the dead piece of tech with no way to use it[/quote] Have to agree with you on this one unless they actually document their API. Another question which I believe hasn’t been raised so far. I’m pretty much out too but still. Will the cloud service be and remain free for end users? I don’t believe it’s explicitly said anywhere.

80

yeah, I saw about alternative server. Believe me, I am quite IT capable guy, but having another server at home is not what I want. If I assume it right of course, because no details were provided.

Most smarthubs would not be able to connect to that thing because they have no way to connect to it. Let’s say I have chinese TV, it has wifi connection and I even can watch youtube on it. Will it make Vera3 to be able to connect to it and control it. No, of course not. So why Vera3 will be able to connect to that thing?

Somebody needs to create the plugin first, and before that that somebody needs to know API for that thing, and then they were talking about some highly double encrypted protocol (they in fact lost me there, what is it, https or ssl is not good enough?). And all that effort for what? And who will pay for it? Most plugins on micasa site are versions 0.0something.

In understand having a way to control over WAN is something new in their UVP, but to have for that another nonintegrated app on a phone? Come on, I have Imperihome and I am quite happy with the remote control it provides, more that that, I can use PLEG or create my own luup and integrate with a lot of things (send text to TTS on ubuntu, use NFC stickers, so on). But that thermostat will require too much effort on my side even it would have an API.

It is not a cheap one, 125CAD is something I would pay when I really see something I want. I have already programmable thermostats, to replace it I need some incentive than just a remote control through the cloud I even not sure will be there.

And the cloud cant be free, that business model can not live for long, it needs to be paid either by ads or with service fee. I just forgot to mention it, so thank you, but I stay with Vera3 and just plain old relay for the line voltage