Over the past 15 months three ZW3001(one a “-WCS”) have failed in the same way: the associated incandescent light* stops turning on, but the switch’s blue LED goes off and on as I toggle the switch and the switch communicates with my Vera controller (e.g., “transmit successful”). When I replace the switch with another one, everything works fine, so I know the light and the circuit is good.
Are these devices considered reliable? Any suggestions about what might be causing this besides bad luck?
*“light” in this case is actually three ceiling cans each with a common indoor Phillips 50W Halogen flood lamp.
Yes, I have been seeing some similar problems with the GE/JASCO dimmers, but not the ZW3001, the 45612 (ZW3003) models instead, as well as a few 45609 relays. Not real common with your exact problem, but I have indeed replaced maybe 2-3 in the last year for my customers with this same exact issue. The more intense problem we have been having is with the traveler terminal of the 45609’s when used with 3-ways. They seem to be failing at a fairly low level, maybe 1% or so of overall sales of mostly 45609’s.
The model you are having problems with is a discontinued model, it was replaced by the 45612 (ZW3003) in Dec. 2011, so unfortunately probably wouldn’t be under any warranty or returns, but this issue is definitely happening occasionally. I wouldn’t go so far as to say they are “unreliable” but it has certainly happened before and we are getting a few returns due to one of the two issues mentioned above.
After speaking and corresponding with Jasco Support here’s their opinion about the failures: one must NOT use halogen bulbs with their z-wave dimmer. They stressed that I must stick with “old fashioned, been-in-use-100-years, incandescent bulbs”. I’d sure like to know if the Vera user base shares this same understanding. My question then is: is there a z-wave dimmer that can safely work with Halogen bulbs?
The reason why they don’t recommend halogens is that they burn so very much hotter than incandescent bulbs, thats why they are more efficient but you do have to be careful of the wattage ratings, as they can easily exceed anything in the 3-500 watt range. But they are really just a redesigned incandescent that last longer due to that design.
As far as I am concerned i don’t see any difference as long as the wattage max rating is adhered to. If I am wrong would love to know the answer as well because I have used halogens with dimmers for years with never an issue (except one time I forgot to check and blew up a couple insteon plugin lamp modules!) lol.
[quote=“haworld, post:5, topic:180780”]The reason why they don’t recommend halogens is that they burn so very much hotter than incandescent bulbs, thats why they are more efficient but you do have to be careful of the wattage ratings, as they can easily exceed anything in the 3-500 watt range. But they are really just a redesigned incandescent that last longer due to that design.
As far as I am concerned i don’t see any difference as long as the wattage max rating is adhered to. If I am wrong would love to know the answer as well because I have used halogens with dimmers for years with never an issue (except one time I forgot to check and blew up a couple insteon plugin lamp modules!) lol.[/quote]
Agree 100% (and I’m an electrical engineer in a former life). The switch/dimmer has no idea whether the bulb is halogen or incandescent, it just sees a load. As long as you don’t exceed the watt rating, you are fine.
GE/Jasco gave that canned answer more than likely due to some folks accidentally exceeding the wattage load rating while using halogen lights.
Jasco said that the 45609 Z-Wave Wireless Lighting Control On/Off Switch is safe to use with Halogen lights. I’d like to know of a z-wave dimmer that’s compatible with Halogens. I’ll write Jasco back re your belief that it’s a matter of wattage and not some other technical issue.
I'd like to know of a z-wave dimmer that's compatible with Halogens.
As just stated/alluded to, there’s really no such thing as a dimmer designed specifically for halogen lights. Halogen bulbs present the same type of ohmic load as a regular incandescent bulb does. As HAWorld said, they are just designed to burn more efficiently and brighter. If a dimmer can work with a regular incandescent bulb, then it will work with a halogen bulb.
[quote=“TC1, post:6, topic:180780”][quote=“haworld, post:5, topic:180780”]The reason why they don’t recommend halogens is that they burn so very much hotter than incandescent bulbs, thats why they are more efficient but you do have to be careful of the wattage ratings, as they can easily exceed anything in the 3-500 watt range. But they are really just a redesigned incandescent that last longer due to that design.
As far as I am concerned i don’t see any difference as long as the wattage max rating is adhered to. If I am wrong would love to know the answer as well because I have used halogens with dimmers for years with never an issue (except one time I forgot to check and blew up a couple insteon plugin lamp modules!) lol.[/quote]
Agree 100% (and I’m an electrical engineer in a former life). The switch/dimmer has no idea whether the bulb is halogen or incandescent, it just sees a load. As long as you don’t exceed the watt rating, you are fine.
GE/Jasco gave that canned answer more than likely due to some folks accidentally exceeding the wattage load rating while using halogen lights.
-TC[/quote]
I’ve replied to Jasco Support’s most recent email today with your assumption that wattage load is the sole issue. It’s curious to me that they express no concern about using Halogen lamps with their non-dimming switch (45609). Wouldn’t it also have a load limit or is the load on a dimmer much more critical (or lower)?
Relays can handle much higher loads than dimmers can and the relay switch itself can handle alot higher wattages without creating as much heat as dimmers do. Thats why dimmers are derated the higher wattage or load that is used, it depends on how they are designed. Most relays can handle from 1000 to 1800 watts, whereas a 1000 Watt dimmer (like a Linear 1000D) is not very common anymore due to the abundance of low wattage lighting and the fact that incandescents are no longer being made. A common rating for most zwave dimmers is between 5 & 600 watts max. and if you use them in a double/triple gang box, its even lower, again due to heat constraints caused by the dimmer itself dimming the load - and then you still have to consider wattage maximums for the load of each switch.
Relays are a different animal because they only switch on and off unlike a dimmer. I agree with TC1, JASCO just gave you a canned response for their dimmers, you’re lucky you even got a response at all from then. Most people do not.
Adding on to @haworld and @TC1’s comments… Halogen bulbs are incandescent bulbs. However, they are filled with Halogen gas, rather than nitrogen or air. The Halogen gas allows the tungsten filament to burn hotter and thus brighter without significantly decreasing filament wear/aging due to ablation as would occur with the higher temperatures in air.
The switches and dimmers don’t know or care about the gas. They only care about the load.
And to answer the next question before it gets here, the reason why on/off switches can handle more load than dimmers is because the switch is a mechanical device, when you activate it two pieces of metal come together to complete the circuit. THe pieces of metal (inside the relay you hear click on) can physically handle higher current loads. Since the current is not being restricted (like in a dimmer), minimal heat is being given off
A dimmer is a silent electronic device, the current is regulated by semiconductor devices that can not handle as much current as plain pieces of metal, for the same given size constraints. When the current is restricted (light dimmed), some of that current has to be converted to heat. The more heat generated, the possibility then exists the semiconductor device will breakdown/fail.
Hope this helps,
-TC
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