Insteon vs Z-wave decision

Other Devices & Integrations Lighting & Load Control
#1

I am a new Vera3 user and debating Insteon vs Z-Wave. Looking at doing my 8 ceiling fans (one 3-way), this is what I came up with:

Insteon:
8 fanlinc $80 $640
9 keypadlinc $50 $450
1 2413u modem $80
$1,170

Z-Wave:
8 Leviton fan controller $120 $960
1 accessory switch $20 $20
7 z-wave switches $40 $280
1 z-wave dimmer $50 $50
$1,310

Even after factoring in the Insteon modem the Insteon route comes out $140 cheaper. Why the hell are those Leviton fan switches so damn expensive?! Am I missing something here? I would really like to stay with one technology if possible.

Thanks,
Roy

#2

Possibly because they are the only Z-Wave dedicated fan controllers (AFAIK)…

#3

I have all z-wave in my house and in the last month when running wire for ceiling fans on my second floor, I have been looking at what to do about controlling the fans. I was going to go the leviton fan controller route. I decided against it for several reasons.

  1. cost
  2. Need to separate switches for fan and light

I ended up buying an insteon plm, fanlinc and a keypadlinc to do some testing. I am running fba’s altsteon plugin for controlling the insteon equipment. So far everything seems to work well. I only have the insteon equipment in a test box plugged into an outlet for testing. I still need to order the ceiling fans for the rooms. But it looks like I will be using the insteon gear for my ceiling fan and light.

I can see staying with one technology would make things simple, but there is no harm in having both running together. You also have greater options for both when it comes to devices to install.

  • Garrett
#4

Actually, I went to fans without light kit (where applicable), to lower the profile, and because they weren’t wired separately (i.e. a single switch on the wall to supply power to the fan/light combo).

Does the Insteon stuff (with Vera and the alsteon plug-in) support ‘instant status’?

#5

Yes, fba’s altsteon plugin supports instant status. As long as the keypadlinc and fanlinc have at least one link with the plm, it should report status instantly. I have both devices setup with links in both directions to the plm (e.g. both the fanlinc and keypadlinc are both responder and controller). I believe that my plm is on a different phase from keypadlinc and fanlinc, they are using the wireless option. I need to order more of the insteon gear once I pick out the ceiling fans to install.

  • Garrett
#6

@ All … it appears to me that using the Insteon fan solution there is no hard wired manual switch for the fan. Is that correct?

#7

Correct, you would use the keypadlinc to control the fan.

  • Garrett
#8

When making your decision, it is probably worth thinking a bit about the future as well. If you have any plans to incorporate door locks in to your system, then you will probably want to go Z-wave. The Morning Industries lock that I have has been nothing but a pain to keep running.

Also, Z-wave is the primary technology that MCV is supporting. If you go the Insteon route, and want to use a Vera, be prepared to spend a fair bit of time tinkering to get everything working the way that you want. I have been pleased with the reception Altsteon has gotten, and there seems to be an increasing number of folks on here that understand how to get it working. But, there is no support to speak of. (For some people that is a deal killer. For other (messed up people like me) it means more fun. :wink:

Personally, I think I have the exact opposite setup to garrettwp. My system is primarily Insteon, with a single Schlage door lock, and a GE appliance module so I could get the range I needed from the Vera. So, both systems work fine together, and when you get everything implemented on the Vera, there is little difference between how the two are configured and controlled.

As far as the instant updating, as others have said, as long as you have links to your PLM, it should work. Having links both ways works even better because you get at least 3 messages when something happens. (Which is nice because Insteon doesn’t retransmit messages that fail to get to their destination.) However, one thing that ends up being a little strange is that when you control a device, it only sends status updates. So, if you have a KPL that you are using to control a fanlinc, the status of the KPL will reflect the state of the fanlinc. But, if you use the Vera web interface, or other control program to change the fan state, the KPL will not reflect the current state. I managed to get around this a bit by having a trigger in the Vera that sends commands to the KPL whenever the fanlinc state is changed. I don’t know if Z-wave has similar issues or not.

As far as having a 3-way for the fan controls, if you use the KPL & Fanlinc route, the only problem you will have is keeping the state of everything in sync. I have a 3-way fan setup, and functionally it works perfectly. However, the LEDs on the KPL are usually in all kinds of wrong states because I was unable to get links set between all the different buttons. garrettwp is working on the code to control the LEDs, which would fix this issue. But, it is unclear when that functionality will be available since Altsteon is only worked on when there is time, and garrettwp is also busy with AutHomation and he has to rely on me to fix bugs that he finds in the daemon. :wink:

#9

Currently I have 2 z-wave thermostats linked to Vera and that’s it. I have an IRLinc and a pair of switchlincs being controlled by a Logitech Harmony remote in my media room. If I move away from Insteon to all z-wave, I have to find another solution to that setup. I do plan on adding Hale z-wave locks soon, so going all z-wave would make sense there… this would be a much easier decision if the Leviton fan controllers weren’t patent inflated. Decisions, decisions…

Thanks,
Roy

#10

Stupid question. I looked at the Leviton fan controllers once, and it seemed to me that they included the switch, or were the switch. Google seems to show what I remember. (Link : http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/Leviton/Item/VRF01-1LZ/ ) Am I missing something?

If the switch is included, or the controller is actually the switch, then doesn’t it change your numbers pretty drastically?

#11

The VRF01 is a wall switch/controller that controls the fan speed (off, low, medium, high). If the fan has a light kit, you’d have to add a second switch or dimmer for the lights, assuming you currently have separate switches for the fan and the lights / they are wired separately. If they are not currently wired separately, you’d lose the lights.

#12

I will be going with the Leviton so the fans can be controlled manually … new code here requires a light switch and a fan switch.

#13

[quote=“fba, post:10, topic:171564”]Stupid question. I looked at the Leviton fan controllers once, and it seemed to me that they included the switch, or were the switch. Google seems to show what I remember. (Link : http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/Leviton/Item/VRF01-1LZ/ ) Am I missing something?

If the switch is included, or the controller is actually the switch, then doesn’t it change your numbers pretty drastically?[/quote]

I currently have separate switches for fan/light control, thus the other switches.

#14

I use both Wave & Insteon - for several reason. I bought my Vera ONLY because of the Insteon support from fba.

Dimmers: Insteon

  • Insteon has MANY more options and at much better prices than Zwave manufacturers
  • All but one of my dimmers are Insteon, I have one GE Zwave dimmer, just to test. I just bought some Evolve dimmers but not sure when I will try them
  • Insteon dimmers have LED level indications and up/down switch paddles (many Zwave are only single switch paddles).

In-wall Relays/Switches: Insteon

  • quieter than most Zwave & less cost

Appliance Modules: Zwave

  • I got GE versions and they work great. Just as well as the Insteon appliance modules I used.

Door locks: Zwave

  • no contest here, Zwave options are much better. ZigBee is just starting to take hold so that will be interesting.

Other Misc: both Insteon & Zwave

  • I will pick best of breed here… irrigation, motion sensors, door sensors, garage sensors, etc.
  • Insteon has a lot more options in the misc devices and sensors categories. Zwave is lagging and too slow at catching up IMO.

Hope that helps

#15

[quote=“Aaron, post:14, topic:171564”]I use both Wave & Insteon - for several reason. I bought my Vera ONLY because of the Insteon support from fba.

Dimmers: Insteon

  • Insteon has MANY more options and at much better prices than Zwave manufacturers
  • All but one of my dimmers are Insteon, I have one GE Zwave dimmer, just to test. I just bought some Evolve dimmers but not sure when I will try them
  • Insteon dimmers have LED level indications and up/down switch paddles (many Zwave are only single switch paddles).

In-wall Relays/Switches: Insteon

  • quieter than most Zwave & less cost

Appliance Modules: Zwave

  • I got GE versions and they work great. Just as well as the Insteon appliance modules I used.

Door locks: Zwave

  • no contest here, Zwave options are much better. ZigBee is just starting to take hold so that will be interesting.

Other Misc: both Insteon & Zwave

  • I will pick best of breed here… irrigation, motion sensors, door sensors, garage sensors, etc.
  • Insteon has a lot more options in the misc devices and sensors categories. Zwave is lagging and too slow at catching up IMO.

Hope that helps[/quote]

So the Z-Wave dimmers don’t have the level LEDs? What do you mean only single switch paddles? How do you lower/raise if it’s just a “single paddle”?

What do you mean “quieter” for the switches? Do the Z-Wave switches hum or something?

Thanks

#16

[quote=“rwalker, post:15, topic:171564”]So the Z-Wave dimmers don’t have the level LEDs? What do you mean only single switch paddles? How do you lower/raise if it’s just a “single paddle”?

What do you mean “quieter” for the switches? Do the Z-Wave switches hum or something?

Thanks[/quote]

Most of the Z-wave switches, whether dimmers or on/off, have a single LED that typically is on when the switch is off (so you can find the switch in the dark), or optionally on when the switch is on (selected operation by a parameter you program). The Leviton switches have a single panel; push on, push off, hold to dim/brighten. The GE on/off switches have a noticeable relay click when you turn them on or off. There is no hum that I’ve ever heard (and I have about 15 or so of the GE switches in my house).

#17

The Leviton’s have a single paddle for on/off. Then there’s an LED indicator bar to show dim level, with an ‘up’ and ‘down’ button. There’s a locator LED below the paddle, which can be hard to see when you’re closer to the device.