The newer hard wired smoke alarms have a signal wire that will sound all alarms if one goes off. Apparently the use a 9 volt signal. Not sure if AC or DC though. Was thinking that if I could take that signal and run it to an z-wave input, I could then get the smoke detectors integrated into the vera at low cost.
Has anyone tried this?
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Most of the manufacturers that make interconnected smoke detectors also make an “interface” module that provides a dry contact relay output when the detectors are tripped. The relay output can be connected to any number of sensors to provide input into Vera.
For example, I have an installation that uses a Vista 20P Alarm panel and has the previously existing wired smoke detectors interfaced to a wireless door sensor configured as a fire zone. The Vista panel is then connected to the Vera.
You could also use a Z-Wave door sensor, or the Arduino MySensors system, or a GlobalCache GC-100 sensor input to interface with the vera.
While the interconnect wire may operate at 9 volts, most interconnects do use a coded signal to indicate a triggered condition, to prevent a transient voltage from triggering a false alarm. The “interface module” is usually inexpensive… The BRK Electronics (First Alert, etc) interface is under $20USD, and only one interface is needed per installation.
You can also use Vera to trip the smoke detectors. I use this as well.
what kind of relay would I need?
also what type of contact should I use?
[quote=“eli167, post:4, topic:183244”]what kind of relay would I need?
also what type of contact should I use?[/quote]
This is what I used to attach my smoke detectors to the alarm panel. It’s made for this.
http://www.amazon.com/Kidde-SM120X-Detector-Hardwired-I-Combo/dp/B001AYERC2
[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:5, topic:183244”][quote=“eli167, post:4, topic:183244”]what kind of relay would I need?
also what type of contact should I use?[/quote]
This is what I used to attach my smoke detectors to the alarm panel. It’s made for this.
http://www.amazon.com/Kidde-SM120X-Detector-Hardwired-I-Combo/dp/B001AYERC2[/quote]
Interesting. I’m interested in doing this. What type of panel do you have? Did you just connect it as an additional zone or did you wire it to the alarm output? I have a Vista panel that’s integrated into Vera already.
All this is, is a simple relay. High voltage input from the smoke detectors going off opens the low voltage side. And trips a zone on the alarm panel.
So I have it wired to an separate zone on my alarm panel and that zone is setup for a smoke or fire input that trips no matter what the alarm state. Same as you would if you had a single alarm smoke detector wired to the panel.
The main house has around 8 of these hardwired smokes all linked together one trips it sends power all down the line including to this relay and trips everyone to go off. I found the closest one to my alarm panel and made the connection their in the attic, running a wire to the panel threw the attic.
EDIT: I have a caddex or GE panel but the concept is the same and will work with any of them. Only the progaming in the panel is different. Again this relay is not specific to a brand.
Richard I’m assuming your using the relay I posted a link to.
I’m also assuming you don’t have this wired to an alarm panel just straight to a zwave contact or z-wave relay?
How are you manually tripping the smokes? What devices and what does your wiring look like?
Thanks,
[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:7, topic:183244”]All this is, is a simple relay. High voltage input from the smoke detectors going off opens the low voltage side. And trips a zone on the alarm panel.
So I have it wired to an separate zone on my alarm panel and that zone is setup for a smoke or fire input that trips no matter what the alarm state. Same as you would if you had a single alarm smoke detector wired to the panel.
The main house has around 8 of these hardwired smokes all linked together one trips it sends power all down the line including to this relay and trips everyone to go off. I found the closest one to my alarm panel and made the connection their in the attic, running a wire to the panel threw the attic.
EDIT: I have a caddex or GE panel but the concept is the same and will work with any of them. Only the progaming in the panel is different. Again this relay is not specific to a brand.[/quote]
Yeah, I was thinking this was the way to do it. I’m going to see if I have a detector close enough to my panel. If not, I’ll wire up the relay to an extra z-wave door sensor I have with NC contacts. Same way I did my doorbell. Thanks for the info.
[quote=“qwen3579, post:9, topic:183244”][quote=“integlikewhoa, post:7, topic:183244”]All this is, is a simple relay. High voltage input from the smoke detectors going off opens the low voltage side. And trips a zone on the alarm panel.
So I have it wired to an separate zone on my alarm panel and that zone is setup for a smoke or fire input that trips no matter what the alarm state. Same as you would if you had a single alarm smoke detector wired to the panel.
The main house has around 8 of these hardwired smokes all linked together one trips it sends power all down the line including to this relay and trips everyone to go off. I found the closest one to my alarm panel and made the connection their in the attic, running a wire to the panel threw the attic.
EDIT: I have a caddex or GE panel but the concept is the same and will work with any of them. Only the progaming in the panel is different. Again this relay is not specific to a brand.[/quote]
Yeah, I was thinking this was the way to do it. I’m going to see if I have a detector close enough to my panel. If not, I’ll wire up the relay to an extra z-wave door sensor I have with NC contacts. Same way I did my doorbell. Thanks for the info.[/quote]
A z-wave door contact would work just fine. I’m not sure if you are set up for wireless on your alarm panel. You could also use a honeywell wireless door/window contact wired to it.
I wanted to keep the fire input in the alarm panel but I can also view from Vera and create alerts.
I guess if your not monitored it might not matter if its z-wave or alarm, but I feel more secured that it’s alarm panel for some reason.
I did not wire to my alarm panel because I do manually trip it and did not want to trip my alarm.
My alarm will trip the smoke detectors,
I use an ITach relay to trip.
It had 3 reals, I use two for the garage door using a garage door remote control, and the 3rd to trip the smoke detector. I have a smoke detector in the garage to tap into as well as provide power for the ITach.
My smoke detectors are tripped by putting a 9V signal (I use a transistor battery) across the white and red wires. That’s how one alarm signals the others.
[quote=“RichardTSchaefer, post:11, topic:183244”]I did not wire to my alarm panel because I do manually trip it and did not want to trip my alarm.
My alarm will trip the smoke detectors,
I use an ITach relay to trip.
It had 3 reals, I use two for the garage door using a garage door remote control, and the 3rd to trip the smoke detector. I have a smoke detector in the garage to tap into as well as provide power for the ITach.
My smoke detectors are tripped by putting a 9V signal (I use a transistor battery) across the white and red wires. That’s how one alarm signals the others.[/quote]
Thanks
Sorry folks, Im all messed up here. I have existing hardwired smokes that are not tied to anything. I would like them tied to both my alarm panel and Vera. I have a DSC1862 with the EVL3 interface for the Vera DSC plugin. I also need to add more smokes - utility room, garage , etc.
What is the best way to integrate?
Should I tie the existing smokes to the alarm panel and have it tell Vera when they trip?
Should I add new wireless smokes via the DSC wireless keypad or Vera Zwave?
Why are you using the relay to trip the smokes? Or is the relay tripping the alarm?
Why use the door sensor for Vera?
Why do you not want them setting off your alarm?
Sorry for so many questions, im trying to wrap my head around this so I can make it happen within the next few days.
Thanks
I have a bi-directional connection to the the Smoke Alarms …
After more reading I have discovered that my existing smokes are stand alone 120vac with a 3rd yellow wire for signaling. These are mandated alarms and should be kept separate from the alarm system. There are ways to tie them to the alarm panel but should be left alone. Is this correct?
I have 10 year old ion smokes, I should consider replacing them with newer 2 or 4 wire low voltage units? Ion/heat/CO2 combo units correct?
I can pull cat5 cabling between the smokes upstairs but will need a separate power supply and battery to power them?
Richard, I understand what you are doing now, both smoke detection and alarm sirens. Thank you.
Sorry, I don’t mean to hijack this thread but I want to contribute.
When I started looking at the smoke detectors at my house I made the assumption that I could and should tie the existing hard wired 110vac ion smoke detectors into either Vera, my DSC alarm panel or both. Turns out this is not legal or smart due to another point of failure etc. Advise is to leave them alone in the stand alone config.
After reading more I found “2 wire” or “4 wire” smoke detectors mentioned. These are also hard wired versus wireless however they are low voltage 12vdc. I searched generic smoke detector vendors and little is offered. I then figured out that they are specific for alarm panels and are known as “monitored” smoke detectors. I will check in to the DSC detectors and add one or two hard wired units to my house 2nd floor however they will be separate and combo CO2, ion, and heat detectors.
I am sure that I don’t have to stick with DSC but don’t know alternatives yet. I will tie a few more DSC branded wireless detectors into my alarm panel via the wireless keypad on the first floor, laundry and garage of my house.
Lastly, when my DSC panel detects a fire alarm it will notify Vera via the EVL3 and I will create a PLEG to trip the existing 110vac detectors. I am not sure if/how I can do this yet.
[quote=“Moshman, post:16, topic:183244”]Sorry, I don’t mean to hijack this thread but I want to contribute.
When I started looking at the smoke detectors at my house I made the assumption that I could and should tie the existing hard wired 110vac ion smoke detectors into either Vera, my DSC alarm panel or both. Turns out this is not legal or smart due to another point of failure etc. Advise is to leave them alone in the stand alone config.
After reading more I found “2 wire” or “4 wire” smoke detectors mentioned. These are also hard wired versus wireless however they are low voltage 12vdc. I searched generic smoke detector vendors and little is offered. I then figured out that they are specific for alarm panels and are known as “monitored” smoke detectors. I will check in to the DSC detectors and add one or two hard wired units to my house 2nd floor however they will be separate and combo CO2, ion, and heat detectors.
I am sure that I don’t have to stick with DSC but don’t know alternatives yet. I will tie a few more DSC branded wireless detectors into my alarm panel via the wireless keypad on the first floor, laundry and garage of my house.
Lastly, when my DSC panel detects a fire alarm it will notify Vera via the EVL3 and I will create a PLEG to trip the existing 110vac detectors. I am not sure if/how I can do this yet.[/quote]
I think your a little over worried about something. The relays that were linked are made for hardwired smokes. Adding them parallel to your system doesn’t add a failure point except the device it’s self. The smokes will still do what they already do with or without the relay working. If that relay fails you won’t get a vera alert, which is not against code nor is it supposed to be considered reliable or life and death information. All your doing is adding an extra function.
If you have an alarm panel and wanted to buy only alarm panel smokes wired or wireless and put each on their own zone that’s great. In California for new construction I think code states much all be hardwired high voltage smokes (all must sound when one goes off) and a sprinkler system. One of my older houses has neither.
If you have hardwired smokes and you want to add another one to each room just for vera, I would say your a little overboard but it will work.
Thanks for the reply, not worried just very confused.
So the linked relay can go anywhere in the hardwired smoke detector 100vac circuit and provide a low voltage input into the alarm panel? The 3rd yellow/red wire will signal the alarm via the relay?
I understand what you are saying that the relay itself should not cause any problems with either the alarm panel or alarm system. Most articles say to leave your existing alone regardless. I am comfortable with using the relay with my existing.
Since the units that I have are smoke detectors I was going to add 2 more low voltage photoelectric units in the common areas. Any wireless units would also be compatible.
I think I am getting there, thanks again.
Ok, so I think I figured out my source of confusion, please tell me if I am wrong.
When installing the new PC1864 alarm panel, there is a specific way to connect the smoke alarms via the PGM terminals. These terminals supply 9.8 - 13.8 volts to either the 2-wire or 4-wire smokes.
This thread has been discussing the use of a relay for existing 110vac hardwired smokes. The relay simply completes a circuit so it would therfore be connected to a zone on the alarm panel and NOT the PGM terminals.
Wow, what an absolute beating (for you and me :-)) trying to get through this.
So we can also use these relays for other things as well as long as we stay under the designed electrical specs?
[quote=“Moshman, post:19, topic:183244”]Ok, so I think I figured out my source of confusion, please tell me if I am wrong.
When installing the new PC1864 alarm panel, there is a specific way to connect the smoke alarms via the PGM terminals. These terminals supply 9.8 - 13.8 volts to either the 2-wire or 4-wire smokes.
This thread has been discussing the use of a relay for existing 110vac hardwired smokes. The relay simply completes a circuit so it would therfore be connected to a zone on the alarm panel and NOT the PGM terminals.
Wow, what an absolute beating (for you and me :-)) trying to get through this.
So we can also use these relays for other things as well as long as we stay under the designed electrical specs?[/quote]
Yes and yes.
It’s connected to a zone just like a door or window sensor. Either the circuit is opened or closed.
When the panel is programmed that zone is set to proper commands for a fire input. Which means that it will trip instantly no matter if the alarm is set or not and the output code will read fire when it goes off. For example if you plan on having a monitoring service.
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