How I installed my 3-way (4-way, and 5-way) GE switches

Like some out there, I am not an electrician, as a matter of fact, I didn’t bother to look at how a light switch works before I got my veralite four weeks ago. After my veralite arrived in the mail, I had to read online about 3-way light switch, 4 (and beyond)-way switch to learn more. I am a newbie to home automation, so I do feel the pain that many have encountered such as spending several hours in the span of several days to figure out, to read, and to learn how to put these babies together to make them actually work as intended.

Many posts in this forum as well as other websites helped me tremendously; to that, I thank those anonymous members and posters! I hope that sharing my experience would help others who might be in the same situation as I was just 2 or 3 days ago. This may save some newbies out there a few hours of pain and or headaches, that is the reason why I am writing this up.

Disclaimer: It is dangerous to work with electricity, accidents do happen even if you are the expert, be very careful, don’t be lazy and do not assume, test everything! I would rather take a few extra steps to verify that I have switched off the main circuit breaker in addition to using a voltmeter to test the actual wires in the light switch than to find out the hard way by having gazillions of electrons flowing through me :). Each house may be wired differently, so don’t assume anything base on the color of the wire, what I am posting here IN THIS POST applies to my house, yours may or may NOT be a little different, keep this in mind.

My house has a lot of light switches, imagine a 4-way switch with 3 switches located only 5 feet from each other? I was like, when the builder built my house, were the switches on sale at the 99 cents store with buy one get one free promotion or something hehehe? Seriously, 3 switches all within each other’s reach? There are a few other locations in my house where I think that some switches aren’t necessary. Needless to say, I disabled some and turned them into either a single pole, or a 3-way.

Single pole is somewhat easy, so not many would have problem, I will talk about my 3-way switch installation. Tools that you need are including but not limited to: electrical wire caps, multi-function voltmeter, flat head driver, screw driver, 14 AWG copper wire with white cover from any home improvement store, wire cutter, and finally a wife or girlfriend :), if you have one, to save you time to know which switch in the circuit breaker controls that light switch. I had to manually run back and forth to find out, talk about exercising.

There are 5 lines you have to know, those five ELECTRICAL wires are: line (this is where the electricity comes in), load (this goes to the light or other source of energy consumption), neutral, traveler, and ground. Don’t worry too much about color, but for my house, white is neutral, bare copper wire is ground, black is line (, load, or traveler), and red is traveler. You get to define what wire is load or traveler, just make sure you follow the code so you do not confuse yourself or others in the future!

I have a 3-way switch in my kitchen, the load wire is always in one switch box while the line wire is in another. From here on, the box with the line wire shall be denoted as box A, and the box with the load wire shall then be denoted as box B. After I turned off power from the circuit breaker, I opened up both switch boxes, labeled the wires with numbers and take a picture just in case I need to put them back in the original position, then I removed both switches. With all wires out and not touching one another, I turned the power back on for that switch from the circuit breaker, used a voltmeter to see which of the black wire is the line–this is where the main power comes in from. A word of caution, some of the wires may have paint on them so you might want to scrape them off–perhaps with a fingernail or sharp side of your knife–first so you can get an accurate reading if there is voltage or not. Just scrape them all, don’t be lazy now.

After I determined which is box A and which is B, I used a voltmeter and dialed to the continuity function to test box B, there are two black wires and a red wire in box B, one of the two black wires is the load. In box B, I have the neutral wires, which were twisted together, capped, and pushed all the way in the box. I cut 6 to 8 inches of 14 AWG wire, twisted open the cap and added this new wire to the neutral group.

The GE main switch requires the load and line to be on the same side. Since there are two traveler wires, one is black and the other is red, I capped the load wire from box B to a black traveler wire in there, now that black wire becomes a load wire on my box A since the (what was the) black traveler wire has been converted to the load wire in the box B. The red wire is used as a traveler A running to B. Now coming back to A, I connected, ground, neutral (which I just created just like how I did in box B above), line, traveler, and load wires to my GE main switch. Back to B, I connected ground, neutral, and traveler wires to my GE auxiliary switch. Made sure all connections are tight, for my model and version, there are two holes at each terminal, I can pick either hole, pushed the wire in and tighten the screws. I double checked to make sure all the connections are correct and tightly secured. I proceeded to turn on power from the circuit breaker. Went back in the kitchen to turn on for testing, and voila, the two switches blew up and started a fire, hehehe, just kidding, they worked just fine, I tested by turning on at A then off at B, on at B and off at B, etc. All combinations worked. Then I powered off from the circuit breaker, returned to the kitchen and pushed all the switches in and put all face plates on. I could have combined a few steps, but I don’t mind the extra steps as I learned how to do these things, systematically following steps so I would remember for a long time.

I did several 3-way switches in my house, also did a 4-way and 5-way, yes LOL, too many switches. The concept is similar, but if someone wants me to write up how I did my 4-way and 5-way (I reduced them to 3-way since many of my switches are too closely placed together to be of great use), I would be more than happy to do that in my reply.

My way is not the most efficient way, and surely it is not the only way, but as newbies, we have to start with the basics, then as time progresses and knowledge gained, we can optimize the schematics later if need be. One of many tricks is looking at the romex wire then you could tell which black wire is most likely the load so you could use a continuity tester to test that wire first, since load would travel hand in hand with the white and ground wires–no RED wire in there.

I said it before and I will say it again, the above is the schematics in my house, yours might be different, never assume, test every line. User voltmeters with one as a backup. Better being safe than sorry!

Here is something extra I wanna put in. Since some of my tenants never turn of the lights at night even after multiple times telling them, I just have a luup code to iterate and turn off all my GE zwave switch lights, pausing ten seconds and moving on to the next light. My lights have the ID number from 4 to 10; therefore, I used a for loop incrementing from 4 to 10.

for i = 4,10 do
local AmIOn= luup.variable_get(“urn:upnp-org:serviceId:SwitchPower1”, “Status”, i)
if (AmIOn== “1”) then
luup.call_action(“urn:upnp-org:serviceId:SwitchPower1”, “SetTarget”, {newTargetValue = “0”}, i)
luup.sleep (10000)
end
end

Some might say, why not just have a single line of code to turn off inside that for loop and get rid off the if statement. For me, I just want to make sure they are on before I send a signal to turn them off, you can just send an off signal to each of them if you want to, but I like to poll first. That is just me.

That is all I have to say, what a short review huh? LOL :slight_smile: Good luck to everyone, if you are a newbie and have a question then ask me, who is better at feeling, seeing, or understanding your newbie pain than me…who happens to be another newbie?

First of all you get a + from me for this write up which should now be visible under your nickname. I just moved into my new house and I am facing the same dilemma here. Your writeup is interesting and confirms my research so far while I have to admit some graphics or schematics would have helped a lot.

With that said there is one section where I am struggling today which is where you have to find “THE” box A where everything starts. In your posting above you state:

How did you determine which is box A and which is box B? I also have 4-way and one 5-way switch in my house and I am NOT looking forward in trying to find out which is “THE” box A for each one of them.

Good iteration code. It also shows an example of what can be done using LUA.

Unfortunately that loop code would not work for me. I have different types of devices (dimmers, switches, controllers) interspersed with each other, and the device IDs for the various types of devices are not sequential.

That is why I prefer to use a scene. A scene is easier to modify, and can handle changes easier when you decide to add new zwave components. I then just run the scene using a scene controller, or run the scene via LUA code. I created a “ResetAllLights” scene that turns off all lights, that can be run manually, and also runs off of a timer (8am to be exact).

By the way, there is no harm to the Zwave device to turn it off even if it is already off. The Zwave device just ignores the request if it is already in the desired state. I admit it took me a bit to get over that phobia when I first started with Zwave, but not having to track the state of the switch (or poll it) makes the code much easier.

As far as determining box A from box B, that can be done with a voltmeeter. Just be extremely carefull doing so, household electricity can kill easily. I disconnected both switches, exposed the black (hot) and neutral wires (white), briefly turned on the electricity, then measured which pair had AC voltage. That would be box A, and where I mounted the main ZWave controller. In my setup, it was obvious which wires went to the load or line, and which group where travellers, since the wire groups came into the box separately. The one with the four wires (black, white, red, and ground) was the traveller. The group that had only three wires (black, white, and ground) was the line or load. Note that this is assuming you have standard wiring. Your wiring may be different. Don’t try this at home. Consult with an electrician if you do not know what your are doing. Make sure your last will and testament is up to date before proceeding. And so forth.

[quote=“aa6vh, post:3, topic:182098”]Good iteration code. It also shows an example of what can be done using LUA.

Unfortunately that loop code would not work for me. I have different types of devices (dimmers, switches, controllers) interspersed with each other, and the device IDs for the various types of devices are not sequential.

By the way, there is no harm to the Zwave device to turn it off even if it is already off. The Zwave device just ignores the request if it is already in the desired state. I admit it took me a bit to get over that phobia when I first started with Zwave, but not having to track the state of the switch (or poll it) makes the code much easier.[/quote]
With my set up now, I only have lights and dimmers, and so that short for-loop works for me. I would imagine as I expand (I only got started with home automation for about a month), I would have different devices taking up different non-sequential IDs.

So you had that same phobia, too? It’s good to know I am not the only one, since I just barely started with zwave technology, I am not entirely sure what happens when I send an off signal to an already off device. And my motto as I have stated earlier, better being safe and doing some extra inessential steps than being sorry.

[quote=“Pseudomizer”]Your writeup is interesting and confirms my research so far while I have to admit some graphics or schematics would have helped a lot.
How did you determine which is box A and which is box B? I also have 4-way and one 5-way switch in my house and I am NOT looking forward in trying to find out which is “THE” box A for each one of them.[/quote]

Pseudomizer, aa6vh answered the question you asked. I defined my box A to be the box with line. It seems that the wiring in my house is very similar to aa6vh’s. In my house, the load wire goes with a white (neutral) and ground wire. The other romex , which are traveler wires, contains black, red, neutral, and ground wire. Basically, before testing the black wire, I had a pretty good idea whether or not that wire is a load or line, since in my house, the load wire is the closest switch to the light source. But do not assume, take your time and test out every single line in all the switches. I labeled mine with a tape to remember which is which, I do not want to rely on my memory when it comes to electricity. :slight_smile: In a sense, I am a chicken! No shame in admitting.

I am thinking of adding the pictures this weekend.

In my house, whenever I have more than 3-way light switch. The ones in the middle always have 4 wires plus ground, those 4 wires are 2 black and 2 red, (yes, they are travelers). I have included a picture I found online, and my house is wired exactly as the picture.

In light of the fact, in my house, the 4, 5, or even 6-way switch always have the load in one end with a total of 4 wires: black, neutral, red, and ground; while it would have the line on the other box with 4 wires: black, neutral, red, and ground. Any switches in between these two always have 5 wires, two black, two red, and ground.

Thanks a lot. Last question:

I bought this 3-way Z-wave GE dimmer combination. I assume just buying more of those auxiliary switches like you have in your diagram is the way to go or do I need to buy other models for going to 4-way or 5-way switches? One Master per light and x number of Aux depending on how many ways that light is being controlled.

I just want to make sure I have the right gear before I pull the main breaker at my home and opening up every single light switch.

Thanks.

[quote=“Pseudomizer, post:5, topic:182098”]Thanks a lot. Last question:

I bought this 3-way Z-wave GE dimmer combination. I assume just buying more of those auxiliary switches like you have in your diagram is the way to go or do I need to buy other models for going to 4-way or 5-way switches? One Master per light and x number of Aux depending on how many ways that light is being controlled.

I just want to make sure I have the right gear before I pull the main breaker at my home and opening up every single light switch.

Thanks.[/quote]

The auxiliary switches are the same when used in a 3-way or 4-way setup.

When I installed my 4-way, I simply purchased two pairs of 3-way combos. I then used the leftover main switch as a standalone switch in another circuit. (Cheaper doing it that way.)

[quote=“Pseudomizer, post:5, topic:182098”]Thanks a lot. Last question:

I bought this 3-way Z-wave GE dimmer combination. I assume just buying more of those auxiliary switches like you have in your diagram is the way to go or do I need to buy other models for going to 4-way or 5-way switches? One Master per light and x number of Aux depending on how many ways that light is being controlled.

I just want to make sure I have the right gear before I pull the main breaker at my home and opening up every single light switch.

Thanks.[/quote]

Yes, you do need (n-2) number of GE aux switch for your n-way switch, where n >= than 3, so for 3-way, you need 1 aux, 4-way, you need 2 aux. As you can see, this can be expensive if you have a 5-way like some sections in my house.

That said, I think for low voltage of 300w and low amp, less than 2.5 Amp, you could take a look at the alternative, Aeotec micro switch, one switch is all you need for any n-way switch.

If for any reason, you would only want to use GE switches, I found that Lowes has them for cheap, it has a combo of 1 main switch and 1 aux switch, claiming for Iris, but it is z-wave so it is compatible with mi casa. The combo package goes for 44 bucks, and now they have a 10% discount so after tax, it came out to be 43 something. I bought a couple from them and installed in my house. All work as intended.

I have both, aeotec and GE switches, they are working fine…so far.

OK, going out to lunch now, if you have more questions, I will try to answer them later base on what I know so far.

Also, be sure to check the instructions on connecting your auxiliary switch. Earlier models required the hot (black) lead and traveller, later models required the white (neutral) and traveller.

The drawing above is showing the older model having the black hot lead connected to the auxiliary.

When I connected the load in box B (through box C) to the line coming out of the master switch, I simply daisy chained the black travellers together. The red travellers were the ones connecting auxiliary to auxiliary to the main’s auxiliary connection.

I found it at Lowes http://www.lowes.com/pd_339584-1353-45638_4294722446__?productId=3707744&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo= but it doesn’t state if this is dimmable or simply on/off. On Amazon they have different part numbers for on/off and dimmable. Are those Lowes version kits dimmable?

I have also seen 45609 and 45612 which look to be the same. In the review section of Lowes one guy states that their Iris version is 45609 while I think I have 45612. Anybody knows the difference?

Yes model numbers can get confusing. Especially when the combo kit has a model number that is different from the model numbers of the main and auxiliary switches contained in the kit.

The following Jasco web site does have information on the various GE model numbers:

http://www.jascoproducts.com/z-wave/ge-z-wave-support.asp

Untested, but should work.

[code]-- Turn off devices in devlist

devlist = {4, 5, 7, 23, 99} – Add device numbers to array.

for device in list_iter(devlist) do
luup.call_action(“urn:upnp-org:serviceId:SwitchPower1”, “SetTarget”, {newTargetValue = “0”}, device)
luup.sleep (10000) – Seems excessively long if not completely redundant

end
[/code]

[quote=“aa6vh, post:10, topic:182098”]Yes model numbers can get confusing. Especially when the combo kit has a model number that is different from the model numbers of the main and auxiliary switches contained in the kit.

The following Jasco web site does have information on the various GE model numbers:

http://www.jascoproducts.com/z-wave/ge-z-wave-support.asp[/quote]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

[quote=“Z-Waver, post:11, topic:182098”]Untested, but should work.

[code]-- Turn off devices in devlist

devlist = {4, 5, 7, 23, 99} – Add device numbers to array.

for device in list_iter(devlist) do
luup.call_action(“urn:upnp-org:serviceId:SwitchPower1”, “SetTarget”, {newTargetValue = “0”}, device)
luup.sleep (10000) – Seems excessively long if not completely redundant

end
[/code][/quote]

Those [tt]luup.sleep()[/tt] commands, combined, will get you awfully close to the “60 seconds and Vera restarts” problem. If the scene takes 60 seconds, then Vera will restart itself, so best to split this type of thing up using phased/chained [tt]luup.call_timer()[/tt] / [tt]luup.call_delay()[/tt] commands to avoid the potential of restarts (and let other things occur in the meantime)