I recently got a Mi Casa Verde Vera3. The first think I was looking to automate was my gas powered fireplace. Currently I flip a light switch to turn the fireplace on. So I got a GE Zwave light switch only to find out that the current light switch just completes a low voltage circuit and there is no neutral in the box. I did some reading and it looks like I should get a Zwave appliance adapter and pair that with a 125v relay to be able to turn the fireplace on/off. I feel pretty confident in being able to set this up. What I was also looking to do was control the blower speed as well.
Currently once the fireplace gets to a certain temp the blower will kick on. But my issue is that once it kicks on it draws cool air across the temp. sensor switch which cools it down enough to turn it off, then back on then off again. This repeats for 5-6 cycles before it stays on. Then when I turn off the fireplace, the same happens in reverse (blower turns off, then back on because the ambient air gets warmed up). The blower has a standard 2 prong 110 plug that plugs into the 2 prong outlet inside the fireplace. There is also a speed control knob that came with the blower.
What would be the best setup to be able to turn the fireplace on/off, turn the blower on/off as well as control the speed of the blower all via Zwave. Just to clarify, I was hoping to control each of the 3 items independent of each other (ie. Turn the fireplace on, but not the blower right away, then also control the speed of the blower).
I have been told that I cannot use a dimmer for the blower because it would just cause the blower motor to burn out.
My products:
Mi Casa Verde Vera3
Fireplace: Heat n Glo SL-550TR
Blower: Hearth & Home GFK-160A (manual attached)
Well a couple things. Controlling a gas appliance remotely doesn’t seem like priority #1 for Vera. Turning on an unattended gas appliance seems inherently risky. Think though this carefully before you make this happen.
If you are set on doing this then a few other pointers.
Don’t use a 120VAC relay. Wiring needs to be compliant with building codes and the NEC when you do 120VAC. I see too many posts of people putting 120VAC relays on a lamp cord plug and then dangling in the air by zip ties. This is unsafe and non compliant to building codes. Open air connections are illegal. Lamp cord for permanent wiring is illegal.
Instead do one of the following:
a) Use a Linear FS20Z-1 or equivalent Z-Wave module that has dry contact outputs from an internal relay. You can safely connect those contacts using Class 2 wiring practices (like 24VAC thermostat wiring) to your fireplace switch.
b) use any ZWave appliance module of your liking. Plug a 120VAC to 12VDC power adapter into the switched side of the appliance module. Then wire a 12VDC (Bosch style) automotive relay to the 12VDC adapter. The contacts of the relay can then be wired to the FP switch. The purpose of using the 12VDC is to allow class 2 wiring methods and avoid illegal 120VAC wiring practices.
[quote=“curiousB, post:3, topic:183886”]Well a couple things. Controlling a gas appliance remotely doesn’t seem like priority #1 for Vera. Turning on an unattended gas appliance seems inherently risky. Think though this carefully before you make this happen.
If you are set on doing this then a few other pointers.
Don’t use a 120VAC relay. Wiring needs to be compliant with building codes and the NEC when you do 120VAC. I see too many posts of people putting 120VAC relays on a lamp cord plug and then dangling in the air by zip ties. This is unsafe and non compliant to building codes. Open air connections are illegal. Lamp cord for permanent wiring is illegal.
Instead do one of the following:
a) Use a Linear FS20Z-1 or equivalent Z-Wave module that has dry contact outputs from an internal relay. You can safely connect those contacts using Class 2 wiring practices (like 24VAC thermostat wiring) to your fireplace switch.
b) use any ZWave appliance module of your liking. Plug a 120VAC to 12VDC power adapter into the switched side of the appliance module. Then wire a 12VDC (Bosch style) automotive relay to the 12VDC adapter. The contacts of the relay can then be wired to the FP switch. The purpose of using the 12VDC is to allow class 2 wiring methods and avoid illegal 120VAC wiring practices.[/quote]
Thanks for the reply! I thought it sounded odd to splice an extension cord with a relay.
I do understand the inherent risks with running a gas fireplace from zwave and I still would like to get it working.
I’ll check out that zwave device you talked about.
Would you happen to know how to control the speed of the blower?
Currently the blower has 2 things that control it (both of which came with the blower)
On and Off - There is a thermal sensor that I attached to the bottom side of the heating chamber and when it gets hot enough it closes the circuit.
Speed - There is a knob that is connected in series (after) with the thermal sensor. I was able to take the device out of its socket and learned that it is a KBMC-13BV (as seen here: [url=http://www.kbelectronics.com/Fan_Speed_Controls_Triac/Panel_Mounted_Fan_Controls.html]http://www.kbelectronics.com/Fan_Speed_Controls_Triac/Panel_Mounted_Fan_Controls.html[/url])
Is it possible to replace the KBMC-13BV with something z-wave enabled? I guess Im not as worried about being able to turn the blower on/off as I am with wanting to control the speed.
The Leviton (ZWave) speed controlled I showed would permit variable adjustment of the blower speed. You would basically eliminate the speed controller in the unit and feed the blower motor from the Leviton. If you wanted to retain the thermal start switch you could wire that in series with the output of the Leviton before the blower.
If you want something much simpler you could just use another dry contact pair (Linear FS20Z-1 or equivalent ) and switch across the speed control (shorting it out). That would effectively make the blower run at max speed only. Since you are not home that should be fine. It at least protects you against firing up the gas with no blower running (last person left speed control at minimum setting). In this case you can’t use the automotive relay I suggested for the Low Voltage on/off switch since the fan is 120VAC hence the Linear device above.
If you want to make is cheapest. Do the following. Use an appliance module of your choice. Get a 12VDC (120VAC in) power supply (wall wart). Go find a 12VDC DPDT relay with contacts rated at least 10A @120VAC. Use one pole of the relay to turn on the LV gas control and the other side to short out the 120VAC blower speed controller.
You need to wire this properly per NEC requirements, no lamp cord, no open air connections. No comingling LV and line voltage wiring unless the LV uses 600V rated insulation.
All of the above will probably void the UL certification for the burner so if your house burns down your insurer may decline coverage. As I said there may be better things to automate than a gas appliance.
Personally, rather than trying to control the fireplace with a switch, I would just use a z-wave thermostat for the fireplace and forget about controlling the blower remotely. If you use a thermostat you want a simple, battery powered z-wave device that can control a 2 wire millivolt system. I believe Radio Thermostat has more than one that will fit the bill. You could control the fireplace and blower with a “smarter” thermostat, but it would involve powering the thermostat with a transformer, and switching on the fireplace and blower with relays (which puts you in the realm of wiring the whole mess to be code compliant as curiosB described). Controlling the blower speed through a smart thermostat is beyond my abilities, but I’m sure it could be done.
Ditto, I agree. The secondary benefit is the thermostat controls the fireplace and not Vera so if it locks up and internet goes down the fireplace has a local independent feedback loop. Overall just safer.
You could add a 24VAC coil relay so that when thermostat is calling for heat (and fires up burner) the relay is also closed and the contacts are used to short the speed control such that the fan runs full speed. This way you don’t have the burner running but no way to send heat into the room.
I have a heat-n-glo fireplace. What I did was get a zwave dry contact relay and an Everspring ST814 temp sensor. I leave the fan speed at a static setting.
I’m using a plugin called smart virtual thermostat to turn on and off the fireplace.
If I were to do it again, I might use Arduino just to play with something new!
[quote=“jbresee, post:12, topic:183886”]I have a heat-n-glo fireplace. What I did was get a zwave dry contact relay and an Everspring ST814 temp sensor. I leave the fan speed at a static setting.
I’m using a plugin called smart virtual thermostat to turn on and off the fireplace.
If I were to do it again, I might use Arduino just to play with something new![/quote]
The issue here is I prefer to see a dedicated device as the control element in a gas appliance. Not Vera. If links go down or Vera hangs up the control output could be in a bad state. Yes I know Vera is fairly robust but we’re talking corner case possibilities. What if you were out of the country for a couple weeks and Vera hung up with gas/heat call…
An interesting product to me would be the Linear FS20Z-1 but with an retriggerable count down timer in it. You trigger the timer via z-Wave but the timer is local to the switch and will run out independent of further intervention from Vera. That would be nice for pulse output applications like garage door triggering as well…
That would seem a simple software add for the FS20Z-1 [size=12pt]anyone from Linear out there??? hint hint…[/size]
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