Groups vs. Scenes, and LED indicators for Leviton

Other Devices & Integrations Lighting & Load Control
1

My Leviton 4-button zone controller (VRCZ4) is mostly working, but there are two things confusing me that I thought I might ask about:

[ol][li]The controller does not work if I only assign scenes (i.e. scene 1a = light 1 on, scene 1b = light 1 off). I have to assign Light 1 in this example to a “Group” under the device options. In fact, the controller works fine if I don’t have any scenes assigned, only Groups. It was my understanding that Vera doesn’t differentiate between scenes and zones - but what exactly is the “group” assignment doing? Do I need to assign scenes if I’m only using the on/off/dim functionality?

[/li]

[li]
The LED indicator lights on each button blink when a zone controller button is pressed, but don’t stay on when the light is turned on. When I use the actual light switch, however, the LED next to the button that switch is assigned to will turn green. I’d like to scrap this completely, and have it so that the LEDs are all green when all lights are off (so I can find them at night). I tried this code to turn all LEDs green (8 is my 4-zone controller) in a scene that is supposed to turn the lights off, but the top LED didn’t light up, though the rest were green:[/li][/ol]

luup.call_action("urn:micasaverde-com:serviceId:SceneControllerLED1","SetLight",{newValue="1",Indicator="1"}, 8 ) luup.call_action("urn:micasaverde-com:serviceId:SceneControllerLED1","SetLight",{newValue="1",Indicator="2"}, 8 ) luup.call_action("urn:micasaverde-com:serviceId:SceneControllerLED1","SetLight",{newValue="1",Indicator="3"}, 8 ) luup.call_action("urn:micasaverde-com:serviceId:SceneControllerLED1","SetLight",{newValue="1",Indicator="4"}, 8 )

(thanks to the poster that wrote this, btw)

So in short, what’s the story with groups vs. scenes, and how can I get my LEDs working? Thanks!

2

Unfortunately, once you use the LUUP command to toggle LEDs on the Leviton, it is a one-way street. They will never be done automatically by the Leviton itself (but Vera can manage them). (bug report here: http://bugs.micasaverde.com/view.php?id=1476)

Do you have a Leviton programmer? Leviton calls them “scenes” and “areas” (even for a zone controller, which can do both).

Scene = preset levels, certain lights can be on, others off, some in the middle.
Area = all lights in area get turned on or off (in the case of dimmers, I think they go to their last dimmed level)

With a scene controller, you do have on/off, but it’s a toggle. So if the scene is active, you can turn ALL lights in the scene (even ones that are off in the scene) off. If it’s not active, you can activate it, and all devices jump into place. So if some of your lights in the scene are on, but the scene isn’t active, you first have to activate it, then deactivate it to turn them off (or use a separate button!)

With a zone controller, you have separate on/off. Same rules apply, but you can go from any state to off, or any state to on. For that reason alone, many prefer zone controllers.

Now here is where the LEDs get tricky. Assuming you have strict “scene-capable devices” and have NOT used external LED control, the LEDs should be correct when you trigger things via a scene controller. Associations should be two way (meaning the controller is associated to the device, and the device to the controller). If you trigger a change in state from the device itself, or from Vera, you can “break” the scene, and LEDs should go out. But if you “reconstruct” the scene by toggling the device back, the LEDs will not remain.

I went more in depth on this in a previous thread: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,10167.msg69494.html#msg69494

3

Thanks for the reply. I think I understand the scene vs. zone difference, but I’m still unclear on is what the “Group” attribute is doing when configuring the zone controller. If I can control the on/off functionality of lights by only adding 4 groups and assigning each light to a group, then is it necessary to also create a scene? Or is there a way around assigning each light to a group in the zone controller, and only use scenes?

Unfortunately I don’t have the Leviton programmer - would that be helpful in this situation?

4

The groups (on Vera) define the associations, so only which devices each button on the zone controller are to control. It doesn’t define whether that group is used as an area or a scene. Vera appears to only support scenes, but I think the zone controllers default to area control, so that’s why only defining the group may seem to do the trick. However, to get proper LED operation, you’d want to define a scene on Vera.

(Which, as @PurdueGuy mentioned, appears to have the side effect of being a one-way street, and under Vera control the LED will be on whenever the scene is ‘re-constructed’ (which is not native Leviton behavior)).

I know you’ve said in an earlier post that you have to define the group; but it’s still not clear to me why that is. The only thing you should have to do is create the scene. Vera will then take care of programming the group (which includes herself) and programming the scenes.

5

If I only create a scene, nothing happens - there was a post from someone that I found that was having the same issue (legend99?), but it didn’t indicate what the resolution was. Right now I have 4 scenes (technically 8):

  1. Light 1 on 5) Light 1 off
  2. Light 2 on 6) Light 2 off
  3. Light 3 on 7) Light 3 off
  4. Light 4 on 8) Light 4 off

Each button is only controlling one switch, but if I only assign the scene, nothing happens when I hit the button. If I add “Group 1” and assign the light to the group, the button starts working. In the advanced options,

And just to add to the level of complexity, I added a second zone controller to my other door last night, and despite following the exact same process, it’s decided that only one of the 4 buttons will work. The “associationSet” function is blank, though “associationGet” contains the correct info. Hmm.

6

What kind of switches? I have some Leviton, GE, and Intermatic receptacles and switches that I could futz with. I think I have a VRCZ4 somewhere gathering dust.

7

All are Leviton - VRS15 and VRI06. I just tried removing the group ID from the zone controller and leaving only the scene, and nope, still doesn’t work.

There are a couple association attributes under the advanced options that may have something to do with this. The scene attributes appear correct (the button number = the device number it’s supposed to control), but somehow the controller isn’t turning on the scene. AssociationSet and AssociationGet appear to change based upon whether a group is assigned.

8

Hmm…that sounds odd.

If the light is turned on manually, does hitting “Off” for that button turn the light off?

Did you try setting the reverse associations on the switches?

Vera might be confused, and have programmed the switches to be “off” for the scene. Once you program the reverse associations, try programming the scene directly on the controller. Hold down the ON-side of a button you want to program until it starts flashing rapidly, set the lights (and levels) the way you want them, then tap the ON-side again. It should flash a few more times while it “learns” the scene. Then maybe it will work? Granted, once Vera reconfigures the controller, this could/will get wiped out.

9

If a light is turned on manually, one controller (the one where the on/off switch works) will turn them off, but not back on again. The other controller won’t turn any lights on or off.

I reversed the associations on both and tried again, but no dice. I also tried adding the Group IDs again, and that’s not even working anymore.

The one controller won’t program manually at all, but it’s the one I changed the LEDs on so it may just not be signalling. With the other one I was able to program two buttons, but the bottom button’s LED doesn’t light up at all, so I don’t know what’s going on with that.

Everything is a mess - I went ahead and submitted a ticket with tech support, so we’ll see if they’re able to figure it out. I’ll let you know what they say, as I’m out of ideas at this point.

10

[quote=“Stella2012, post:9, topic:171722”]If a light is turned on manually, one controller (the one where the on/off switch works) will turn them off, but not back on again. The other controller won’t turn any lights on or off.

I reversed the associations on both and tried again, but no dice. I also tried adding the Group IDs again, and that’s not even working anymore.

The one controller won’t program manually at all, but it’s the one I changed the LEDs on so it may just not be signalling. With the other one I was able to program two buttons, but the bottom button’s LED doesn’t light up at all, so I don’t know what’s going on with that.

Everything is a mess - I went ahead and submitted a ticket with tech support, so we’ll see if they’re able to figure it out. I’ll let you know what they say, as I’m out of ideas at this point.[/quote]

Just as an FYI I have 10 of these VRCz4’s and use mostly GE switches. They all work correctly by adding scenes in the button x on and button x off scene tab. I have never tried to put groupID associations in. I wonder if doing that is what screwed things up. Maybe you should exclude them (the VRCZ4) hit button 1&3 till RED to reset them and then re-include and add your scenes. I have done this with Ver 2 and now many Vera 3’s (pro and lite) and multiple firmware releases and never had a problem. How old are the VRCZ4’s?

11

That’s actually exactly what I tried when I received the first one, but it didn’t work, hence the search for an alternate solution. I tried it on the new one I just received as well, and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong, but it didn’t work for that one either. If I go into the dashboard, all the lights turn on and off as they should, but from the controller, nothing happens.

I just did the reset (again) with the non-working controller, so let me know if my next steps are correct:

  1. Held 1 &3 down so that the amber lights are blinking
  2. Included on the Vera by bringing the unit close to the switch and clicking the zwave button once
  3. Select device under Devices > Other, click wrench icon
  4. Assign “On” scenes under the first scene section and assign “Off” scenes under the second section

Are there any other settings I need to change, other than assigning the scenes, to get it working? I clicked “configure node” just for giggles and it indicated “Failed at setting special associations.”

12

I clicked the “configure node” again, and it worked this time.

Do I need to add triggers for the scenes? Right now I don’t have any triggers, I just want the scene to activate/deactivate when I hit the button.

13

[quote=“Stella2012, post:12, topic:171722”]I clicked the “configure node” again, and it worked this time.

Do I need to add triggers for the scenes? Right now I don’t have any triggers, I just want the scene to activate/deactivate when I hit the button.[/quote]

No… So when you manually click you scenes the work right? This isn’t on a bridged Vera is it?

14

Nope, not bridged, and yes, when I click the scenes from the dashboard they work.

15

I am stumped… When you do this and click save, does Vera say zwave: configuring… Also when you click on the wrench icon and looking at the control tab does is say anything like

Scenes Button #3-on=Foyer Lamps On, Button #1-on=Foyer Overhead Lights On, Button #2-on=Dining Overhead Light On, Button #3-off=Foyer Lamps Off, Button #1-off=Foyer Overhead Lights Off, Button #2-off=Dining Overhead Light Off,

16

That makes two of us! When I click the scene from the dashboard, it’ll give me the “run successfully” message, and when I click the individual light from the dashboard, it’ll say “Zwave: configuring.” I don’t understand for the life of me why neither controller is working right. Hopefully I hear back from tech support soon.

And yep, the scenes are showing:

Scenes
Button #1-on=Bright lights on, Button #2-on=Rotary lights on, Button #3-on=Sputnik On, Button #4-on=Halogens On, Button #1-off=Bright lights off, Button #2-off=Rotary lights off, Button #3-off=Sputnik Off, Button #4-off=Halogens Off,

17

Have you tried a [tt]Configure node right now[/tt] on the switch/dimmer?

Do the button pushes show up under Automation > Triggers with the proper [tt]Last run[/tt] time stamp?

18

I use the Zone Controllers and the Scene Controllers by Leviton. IMHO if you want a scene controller then use the Scene controller. The zone controller is great at controlling other dimmers…for example, each button will turn on and off one or more dimmers. This should be done through group associations. Create a group One under the advanced tab and link it to one or more dimmers. This then will allow button one on the zone controller to turn that group on or off and the dimmer at the bottom will work as well…all this and without going through the Vera at all which makes the response time FAST.

Leviton Scene controllers work even better…even though ther are only 4 buttons you still get the on/off by pushing once for on and again for off. Again, set the associations up under the advanced tab…creating group one and adding the associations will allow button one to control that group of dimmers. Here is the difference…Leviton designed the scene controllers to work without a Vera and as such they are instant in response. To set up a scene the way Leviton designed the controller you press and hold the controller button until it flashes…then go around the room and set the dimmers to the desired level…then press the button again and the levels will be remembered. It’s much easier to program than through the Vera. You can still have scenes setup with the Vera but using the technique that Leviton setup will always be faster in response and your wife can change the scene without having to mess with the Vera. In addition, the dimmer at the bottom of the scene controller will dim a scene…you just can’t do that with the Vera and it is a great feature.
One bug…not all dimmers report back to a Leviton Scene or Zone controller, so this works best with all Leviton products.
I hope that is helpful.
Regards
Tim Alls

19

The way Vera programs them can be different, but scene and zone controllers are nearly identical when programmed with a Leviton programmer.

Both can do scenes or areas (an “area” is a group of devices that are on or off…no set dim levels). The only difference is zone controllers have a dedicated Off button, where scene controllers are a toggle.

20

I was able to get the one controller working by adding the group ID / association, but that didn’t work for the other controller, so it’s still not working.

Tech support has been less than helpful - I submitted a ticket on Thursday, and still haven’t been able to get in regular contact with someone to try to figure out why the controllers don’t work. If they would just publish exact instructions, this wouldn’t even be an issue - nowhere does it say that this “group ID” is required to configure the device.

In the meantime, my window shade coverings only go down, not up.