Obviously a newbie here. I have 1,000,000 tabs open in search and my head is spinning. I have my vera 3 running fine with some lighting modules. I am trying to wire in a GE dimmer switch OR a GE 3 way (used as just an on/off). My light box has only 2 wires (black/white) and I cannot wrap my head around how to wire the GE in, or if it’s even possible. I did get the dimmer to work, but only if a light is plugged into the outlet it controls. We don’s use the outlet and I wanted to wire in a switch to control a lighting scene. Sooooo Confused
Okay let’s go slow here since we’re dealing with stuff that’ll kill ya.
You have a single-gang switch box who’s purpos it was to control the rooms wall outlet.
Yes?
Presuming it is you took out the switch and only have 3 wires in total with no other wires in the back?
And those wires are…
Bare (ground)
Black
White
If this is correct what you most likely have is power going to the outlet FIRST one outlet might be set to always on and the other go controlled by the switch.
If my GUESS is correct then that white wire should have been taped or magic marker’d black because it very much sounds like you don’t have any neutral but instead a LIVE/HOT wire ( my guess would be the black ) and then the white wire (LOAD) took power back down into the outlet when the old switch was turned on. Again since the black and white were both HOT the white really needs to be maked black so people opening the box don’t confuse it for a neutral.
If my suspicion is accurate AND PLEASE DON’T TAKE MY WORD ON THIS… PLEASE
You’d need to find a switch that doesn’t need a neutral and use it as a scene controller… Something like an Intermatic dimmer would do the job. You’d simply cap everything BUT the black and the ground,
Connect the ground to the ground in the box and the black you’d wirenut together with the black and ‘white’ already in the box…
BUT Before doing anything you need to be 10000% sure the box only has ONE SET of three wires!
DaveGee,
Yup, it’s a single gang that controls one outlet. After some hunting (breaker OFF of course) I do have a bare ground, white and black. The white and black were wired into the previous switch. The bare ground is barely (And I mean about 1/4") into the box. Both outlets are “on” or “off” when the switch is “on” or “off”. I’m going to have to test the white and black to see what’s getting power. Just FYI my home is the standard early 70’s home with Aluminum wiring (all the switches and outlets rewired).
Thanks for the help DaveGee
Okay well it seems like we are looking at what I expected … However double checking never hurts.
Given we know there are only 1 set of wires en total traveling to the box and it’s that switch that controlld the room outlet then I’m pretty comfortable thinking the power from the load center / breaker box is coming into the outlet box 1st. However the hot doesn’t go to the outlet instead it gets tied to EITHER the white or black of the 2nd set of wires that travel to te switch box.
If you wire nut the lone white wire in the switch box to the lone black wire and turn the breaker on the outlet should be functioning just fine. Aka always on…
So we now know for sure that white wire you see is just part of one large loop that allowed the switch to open/close said loop controlling power flow to the outlet. Tho the white wire SHOULD be colored black with a marker or wrapping black electrical tape around it… I like using a marker since the black tape coud be removed accidentally while someone is removing an electrical tape secured wire nut.
Now the last step is to find something that can act as a scene controller without a neutral since we now learned white wire can be used for other things…
What guess you’d do is tie the white and black together … Making the outlet function as always on instead of switch controlled so the next question is what can you use as a scene controller that works JUST with a HOT and ground? I know the intermatic CA600 dimmer works fine without a neutral however im not sure it would work without a load connected to it’s blue wire and in this config you would never put a dimmer in controll of an electrical outlet… You would instead cap the red traveler wire on the switch and cap the blue load wire on the switch… The black would get wirenutted with the white and black that we’re already twisted together and the green wire would connect to the ground wire inside the box.
Perhaps others can chime in with more ideas.
DaveGee,
Thanks, your guess was spot on. Now I have to try and find a 2 wire switch, thats in-stock and not $6,000. Hopefully someone with an older house has found something that works. I’m going to look for a wireless Z wave controller in the meantime.
[quote=“anonymark, post:5, topic:171794”]DaveGee,
Thanks, your guess was spot on. Now I have to try and find a 2 wire switch, thats in-stock and not $6,000. Hopefully someone with an older house has found something that works. I’m going to look for a wireless Z wave controller in the meantime.[/quote]
Hey wait…
How about this?
In the wall outlet you have everything you need. You just need to rearrange some of the wires!
Presumably you have 2 distinct sets of wires … Maybe three if another outlet or light is also taking power from the outlet…
1 set of wires come from … The load center and or another live box, that set should be,
1 black … Shoud be hot/line
1 white … Should be neutral
1 green … Ground
The 2nd set of wires travels up to that switch box your working in.
You should find in the outlet box that the black from the load center getting tied to the black going to the switch… The switch box then sent the power flow BACK over the white wire (you coud make the outlet always on by simply tiring that white and black wire together… As I outlined above…
HOWEVER… You could just as easielly do the follong…
Simply wire the outlet WITHOUT sending power up to the wall switch.
The outlet should be tested just to really make sure you got the right wired,… The outlet should have one back and one white all coming from the same group of three wires.
THEN you’ll have 3 wires (going to the wall switch) that are totally disconnected…
1 - Tie the gound to the outlet boxes existing grounds,
2 - tie the black wire with the black connected to the outlet
3 - tie the white wire with the neutral connected to the outlet
Then in the switch box you’d have everything you need to use any zwave scene controller.
1 line/hot black wire
2 neutral white wire that’s NOW a real neutral wire and not just a ‘hot/line traveler’
3 ground
That works fine and is really a great option…
Theoretically a Leviton VRS05 would do the trick, if you’re using incandescent lighting, but I wouldn’t want it switching an outlet that you can plug anything into.
Other users have rewired their switched outlets to be permanently powered and re-wire the switch to have permanent power also, then use some sort of controller there to control whatever you plug into the outlet. I use a Leviton VRCS1 and a VRP03 plug-in module. Another option would be an Evolve LTM-5 plus a plug-in dimmer / switch.
Edit:
Other users have rewired[...]This is what @DaveGee just posted also.
You could also set the outlet to be always powered, and replace it with a Z-Wave receptacle, instead of a plugin module. You could use a GE 45605, Leviton VRR15, Intermatic HomeSettings HA01, etc. Then put in a scene/zone controller where the switch was.
I’m preferring receptacles more and more since they provide a cleaner look. The downside is no dimming of incandescent bulbs.
I have considering going the Alsteon (Insteon) route, since Insteon does have a dimmable receptacle, for $60.
DaveGee,
Thanks, after looking in the outlet, that’s what I have. The switch was just a loop switch using a 3 wire bundle (the third wire was trimmed off). I’m going to rewire the outlet and put a scene controller in the switch space. Took a little bit, but now I understand what’s going on and this should make it easier to get the house “Z-waved”. I’m trying to make it almost seamless for my family, ie keeping switches to control lights still…
Heh… Your finding exactly what I found…
Making things easy is almost always ANYTHING but! ;D