I now have three, GE (Jasco) 45638 3-way switch kits installed in my home. All three are wired in properly; all function properly. I’m able to turn them off and on via the master switch and the aux switch. I’ve programmed them with no problems. They respond properly to automation commands, PLEG conditions/actions, and Luup code. All good, right?
Well, tonight, I was working on a PLEG routine and I kept getting frustrated because the conditions weren’t triggering correctly. Just when I was going to write Richard an email, I noticed that one of my 3-ways showed an"on" status on my UI5 screen, but I knew it was actually off. So I checked… yep, it was off. I checked function using commands from UI5, and it responded properly. But I found that when ever I switched states by manually using the aux switch, the light (load) responded, but UI5 did not acknowledge the change. It stayed in the previous state! This is NOT the case with the Master. I can switch it off/on manually, and UI5 shows the status properly and immediately. Likewise, I can switch the 3-way off and on via the UI5 interface, and it functions and indicates normally. However, manual use of the aux switch does not indicate properly in UI5 even though the switch functions properly. Obviously, this causes issues when running PLEG and Luup routines. If I manually turn the light off with the aux switch, and later run a routine that runs only if the light is off, the routine sees the incorrect UI5 indication as light on, and fails.
And all three of the 3-ways do this, so it’s not just a bad switch set! So, any ideas before I open up a trouble ticket?
Melsman
**** More info **** Just discovered that UI5 finally acknowledged the correct status of the 3-way. Have now done this three times. Each time it took between 2 and 13 minutes for UI5 to acknowledge the change of status when manually switching with the aux switch.
This has been answered countless times in this forum.
Lutron owns a patent relating to instant status, which is the ability for switches to notify the controller when the switch is manually flipped. Some companies like Cooper and Leviton license the patent so their products can use instant status.
The GE/Jasco switches don’t support instant status, and therefore do not report their status change to the controller when the switches are manually flipped.
Therefore, the controller periodically polls the switches to find out if they’ve been flipped. Depending on how many switches you have, this could range from minutes to hours before it cycles through and polls every switch.
There is a bit of a workaround that Vera controllers use with GE/Jasco switches, which helps the controller know sooner in some scenarios. Basically, the switch sends out a broadcast message when it’s flipped, and if the controller sees that message, it knows something happened, and polls the switch immediately, and sees the status has changed. However that only works when the switch is communicating directly with the controller, and isn’t routed through other devices on the z-wave mesh network.
What @JamesDVB describes above is correct. I’d just like to add that with the GE/Jasco switches, the “broadcast” that he described is only sent when the primary switch is pressed. It is not sent when the auxiliary switch is pressed.
The only way for Vera to know the state of the switch after the auxiliary switch is pressed is for Vera to poll the switch.
The default Vera/GE poll interval is 60 seconds. This is configurable, but it can become problematic and unreliable to increase to a more frequent interval. If you need reliable knowledge of the switch’s state, you should relay use an Instant Status switch.
Having said that, I do have a PLEG or two where I cheat and cause the PLEG to poll the switch first and then possibly take action based on the switch’s state. e.g. Inputs Device properties
Level LoadLevelStatus
Conditions
Status (LastLevel > 0) AND (Motion;NoMotion)
Off Scheduled AND NoMotion AND Level > 0
Actions
Status Advanced tab, poll device.
Off Switch off the light.
First… thanks everyone for the responses. I appreciate it.
@Z-waver - Thanks for the explanation on the lack of a broadcast from the Auxiliary switch toggle. Seems like a silly design decision on Jasco’s part, especially considering that the switching logic is all done in the Master (at least that’s my understanding). I had not seen the “lack of aux broadcast” issue discussed in the myriad of posts I read on this subject before asking my question.
As a note - the 45638 (and the 45637) switches respond (and update status) almost instantaneously to commands and manual toggle… except for the manual toggle of the Aux switch. The aux on/off response is almost instantaneous; the status update is not. (I mention this only because the bulk of the posts I read mentioned that the Master switches were not responding properly to command and toggle. My issue is only with the Aux manual toggle. It almost seems that GE/Jasco fixed the Instant Status issue on the Master switch side, but didn’t do so on the Aux switch toggle. Again, seems silly to me.)
Also, thanks for the PLEG code advice. I had kept the polling interval on the switches at 60 sec., but since it was taking much longer for the Vera to update UI5 after the 60 sec. polling period, I thought I had reached another dead-end. However, I’ll add the polling logic in place of the simple “on” or “off” logic and see what happens.
Patents. Sometimes they work against a company and many times they work against the consumer. But, if you had been the one to invent Instant Status, wouldn’t you want to make some money from it. I would.
Completely agree. However, I’m assuming (and yes, I know what ASSUME does to U and ME…) that if they fixed the Instant Status on the Master switch end by (perhaps) buying into the patent, said patent would cover the Aux side also. But, having dealt with enough legal issues over the years, I know all too well that apparent simple issues become much more complex.
In the future, I will buy other switches.
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