Why keep messing around with all of this protocols. Why not just move to WiFi?
[ul][li]There are wifi controller chips complete with processors that are small enough to be placed inside dimmers and they are cheep.[/li]
[li]They are much faster.[/li]
[li]They can send status without running into those stupid damn patents since they would be using network protocols that have long since been cleared of any patents.[/li]
[li]You can run higher power transmitters.[/li]
[li]Better error correction.[/li][/ul]
The world is going that way as you can see with the Nest Products.
[quote=“Timon, post:1, topic:179866”]Why keep messing around with all of this protocols. Why not just move to WiFi?
[ul][li]There are wifi controller chips complete with processors that are small enough to be placed inside dimmers and they are cheep.[/li]
[li]They are much faster.[/li]
[li]They can send status without running into those stupid damn patents since they would be using network protocols that have long since been cleared of any patents.[/li]
[li]You can run higher power transmitters.[/li]
[li]Better error correction.[/li][/ul]
The world is going that way as you can see with the Nest Products.
Just my 2 cents worth.[/quote]
It’s my opinion that WiFi is problematic and the frequencies crowded enough in the average home, without adding 30 to 70 additional devices(switches and outlets). The fact that Z-Wave utilizes 900MHz was in fact a major factor in my choosing it over other solutions. 900MHz has become less crowded, after most cordless phones abandoned it. Propagates further and penetrates walls etc. much better.
[ul][li]900MHz radios, complete with processors, are cheap and can fit anywhere.[/li]
[li]900MHz is exactly as fast as 2.4GHz(the speed of light). HA sends a few words of commands(very low bandwidth), it doesn’t need lots of bandwidth such as is needed to transfer files.[/li]
[li]WiFi is definitely patent encumbered![/li]
[li]900Mhz lets you run lower powered transmitters which saves juice, especially important for battery powered devices, because the frequency has better propagation.[/li]
[li]There are zero issues with Z-Wave error correction. WiFi offers no advantage here.[/li][/ul]
Z-Wave wasn’t developed by idiots or inexperienced hackers that made the cheap/convenient(wrong) choice while launching a startup-with-intent-to-exit or crowd funded project. It is a very smart technology developed by some really insightful and forward thinking people. Unfortunately, its relatively slow market uptake and lack of license partners results in a higher price for end users. I won’t argue against the fact that Z-Wave users are presently being gouged.
“The world” goes to some odd places for many reasons not all of them wise or logical. ZigBee(2.4GHz) and WiFi products may increase in their market penetration, but it is my opinion that they will not be a really big deal for some of the reasons I’ve already described. Nest is, in my opinion, a flash in the pan soon to be extinguished by Google. See Motorola.
That’s my opinion, so I think its worth at least 4?.
“900Mhz lets you run lower powered transmitters which saves juice, especially important for battery powered devices, because the frequency has better propagation.”
This is the big one. This allows you to have battery powered sensors and even devices like thermostats, using off the shelf batteries. You can’t do this easily with WiFi.
Not to mention, I could not build out the automation I have in my home today with WiFi. There just isn’t an abundance of devices that do everything I have going on in the world of zwave.
I don’t have any issues with zwave. My only issue is that software development for home automation is very far from state of the art. In other words, I can get my zwave devices talking, I just have a hard time instructing them to perform my wishes.
I have said this before… this is why I am excited about Google getting into this space.
Yup, RTOA CT-101, as sold by Lowes fro their Iris system. I have two of them, one using the C-Wire where I could run new thermostat wiring, and one upstairs where I only had a two-wire thermostat connection.
Yup, RTOA CT-101, as sold by Lowes fro their Iris system. I have two of them, one using the C-Wire where I could run new thermostat wiring, and one upstairs where I only had a two-wire thermostat connection.[/quote]
Irrelevant question. The fact is they do exist, and battery powered wifi don’t, for the simple reason wifi requires too much power. I’m an electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry, and I deal with customers all the time who need low power radios for industrial use. For much the same reason home control has gone to Z-wave or Zigbee, industrial wireless has gone to low power radios, and stayed away from wifi. Just too much power required.
In fairness, I would say it is a good question. For example, if you wanted to switch over an existing unpowered thermostat in your vacation home to zwave, and you install a battery powered unit. In this example, you may be concerned about what may happen when the battery dies, and it is the middle of the winter.
Z-Wave’s advantages have been listed above, but I’ll restate a mini version:
Z-Wave is for battery powered window, door, water leak, shock sensors. Sadly, it’s the battery devices that tend to go haywire on network heals flooding your network.
Here are examples of non-Zw-wave devices controlled with Vera (about 40% of my devices are not Z-Wave).
12 Hue Lights (which are kinds IP controlled at the Hue base)
Open Sprinkler
Nest Thermostat
IP Cameras
iTach TCP/IP to IR bridge
Serial to Somfy RTS Controller
This leaves the following as candidates for IP communication:
Powered AC Motion Detectors
Light Switches and Dimmers
Appliance/Plugin Modules
Of all the items in my house, I’ve had most success with light switches (Leviton) and AC powered internal motion sensors (Express Controls)…so I’d recommend them as stable. While WeMo is an option for an IP based light switch, I think the Z-Wave network with 28 of them might provide issues.
I’ve had the most problems with configuring Scene controllers (Leviton), and would welcome a new interface option based on IP. The other problem I have is the under powered Vera processor and memory limitations that shouldn’t exist in 2014. Sadly, it’s still the only device with the plugins to cover a majority of the HA devices out there.
Irrelevant question. The fact is they do exist, and battery powered wifi don’t, for the simple reason wifi requires too much power. I’m an electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry, and I deal with customers all the time who need low power radios for industrial use. For much the same reason home control has gone to Z-wave or Zigbee, industrial wireless has gone to low power radios, and stayed away from wifi. Just too much power required.
[/quote]
While all of your other points are valid the statement that curiosity regarding the battery life of z-wave thermostats being irrelevant isn’t true. What if running new thermostat wire isn’t cost effective? I’m in this situation right now with several people. I can’t recommend a product that’s always failing because it eats batteries. Like the Everspring door sensors.
@S-F - I don’t know how long the batteries will last in this thermostat. No one mentions battery life in any of the battery operated thermostat reviews that I have read on Amazon. If it were an issue, I suspect that it would have been mentioned. I’m sure that battery life will be a function of the cycle frequency, so if you live somewhere very hot like Arizona and the A/C cycles a lot, then it will not last as long as someone in Washington whose A/C might only cycle a handful of times per day.
I’m curious about your Everspring battery issue. I have a few of these. The most heavily used(frequently tripped/untripped) are on garage doors. The batteries in those units(version 6,2,64,1,3) have been in place for 14 months and presently show 80%. I’m totally OK with that. I wouldn’t even mind only getting 8 or 9 months per set of batteries. The only issue I have with the Everspring sensors is that they are quite large. The Schlage RS100HC are much smaller and I believe the Fibaros are smaller still.
The switch is depressed. The sensor is securely taped to the project box which houses the associated circuitry.
And I do believe I toss and turn too much. It’s frankly amazing how much I move during my sleep. I had no idea until I rigged up this sensor. I imagine most people are similar.
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