Can anyone recommend an extender (dedicated, or even a regular z-wave device) that can extend the range of a Kwikset door lock?
Rob
[quote=“robzr, post:1, topic:195645”]Can anyone recommend an extender (dedicated, or even a regular z-wave device) that can extend the range of a Kwikset door lock?
Rob[/quote]
Any device that handles beaming should be fine. Most wall switches and receptacles do this. However, I have found that my Kwikset 910, after years of tinkering with it simply wanted the Vera close to it. Even though I had 8 devices within 6 feet of it capable of doing this.
The reason to buy a switch/wall receptacle is that the device will at least be able to do something rather than just relay signals. So the value is better.
I’m not sure if Kwikset just has crappy firmware but good luck.
My understanding is that most Z-wave devices cannot relay the security classes that the Kwikset locks need - which might explain why you needed the Vera close. Also, why I was asking about an extender that supports the security classes. Anyone?
The beaming devices are designed to hold the message in a buffer (from a lock) and then sent to the controller. In my case I believe the Vera did not respond in time to the device with the beam and the message was lost. I frequently had luup restarts because of too many plugins (all uninstalled now) and that delay was enough to perpetuate the spotty performance of my lock. In general, having the Vera centralized to your nodes is the best option overall.
When I started buying devices I specifically looked for security class support and found the verbiage used and the documentation didn’t match up and the names to the z-wave topology were not really used in the correct sense. For example, I purposely bought all Linear WS15z-1’s and WO15z-1’s (switches and receptacles) because it said security class. Further into the product description it was more like security command class AKA beaming.
Recently, literally before your post and in frustration with Vera I tried again to search for security class and repeaters/receptacles and did not find what you just responded to me on.
Here’s an example:
Product Command Classes (I have this) notice nothing for command class security.
Now look at the product description:
Z-Wave Protocol Implementation Conformance Statement (beaming/network security (yes/yes))
Interesting… so is it your understanding that any device that supports Beaming (which you can determine by looking for a ‘B’ in Capabilities) should support relaying Secure Classes?
I did some digging on Z-Wave security, it is not very intuitive. It sounds like the most secure option is ‘S2’ or ‘Z-Wave Security 2’, which I think is essentially the second version of the Z-Wave Security Class. S2 can operate in a few different modes, with ‘S2 Access Control’ being the most secure. S2 AC uses something similar to TLS in the IP world - AES-128 encryption, with an ECDH (Elliptical Curve Diffie-Hellman) key exchange, which uses public key encryption. Lots of info here: http://z-wave.sigmadesigns.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Z-Wave-Security-White-Paper.pdf
Regardless, the latest version of the 910 SmartConnect lock only supports S0, or the first version of Security Classes - Z-Wave Protocol Implementation Conformance Statement
So this is anecdotal, but interesting - Kwikset 914 Door Lock Status Not Updating... - Z-Wave - Series 300/500 - Universal Devices Forum This guy found that the Aeon Labs Repeater does not work with the Kwikset Z-Wave locks, but the Aeon Labs Siren does. Here are the Conformance Statements:
Repeater - Z-Wave Protocol Implementation Conformance Statement
Siren - Z-Wave Protocol Implementation Conformance Statement
They both support Beaming, but only the Siren supports Security S0. So my working hypothesis is that in order for a relay to work with the Kwikset locks, it needs to support both Beaming and S0. What do you think? I’m learning as I go here, could be totally wrong.
Rob
[quote=“robzr, post:5, topic:195645”]Interesting… so is it your understanding that any device that supports Beaming (which you can determine by looking for a ‘B’ in Capabilities) should support relaying Secure Classes?
I did some digging on Z-Wave security, it is not very intuitive. It sounds like the most secure option is ‘S2’ or ‘Z-Wave Security 2’, which I think is essentially the second version of the Z-Wave Security Class. S2 can operate in a few different modes, with ‘S2 Access Control’ being the most secure. S2 AC uses something similar to TLS in the IP world - AES-128 encryption, with an ECDH (Elliptical Curve Diffie-Hellman) key exchange, which uses public key encryption. Lots of info here: http://z-wave.sigmadesigns.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Z-Wave-Security-White-Paper.pdf
Regardless, the latest version of the 910 SmartConnect lock only supports S0, or the first version of Security Classes - Z-Wave Protocol Implementation Conformance Statement
So this is anecdotal, but interesting - Kwikset 914 Door Lock Status Not Updating... - Z-Wave - Series 300/500 - Universal Devices Forum This guy found that the Aeon Labs Repeater does not work with the Kwikset Z-Wave locks, but the Aeon Labs Siren does. Here are the Conformance Statements:
Repeater - Z-Wave Protocol Implementation Conformance Statement
Siren - Z-Wave Protocol Implementation Conformance Statement
They both support Beaming, but only the Siren supports Security S0. So my working hypothesis is that in order for a relay to work with the Kwikset locks, it needs to support both Beaming and S0. What do you think? I’m learning as I go here, could be totally wrong.
Rob[/quote]
Interesting.
My understanding was anywhere “beaming” was listed it should support security from standard z-wave door locks. I wasn’t aware of S0/S2 you posted but good to know now.
Very interesting, supports beaming and network security but neither of the S0/S2. LOL, I’m not even sure what to say on that. This is where it gets tough for end users to know before purchasing.
My opinion is your last statement is correct it would really need Beaming and S0 or S2 depending on the lock and the device. So I noticed now looking at my own Linear devices from my links and they do not support S0 or S2.
But you know what is odd? The variable for AutoRoute (showing me what devices are using it as paths) always shows a bunch of my Linear devices. So to me it appears they are being used by the lock. I’m betting they were picked up by the controller to be used because they supported beaming but don’t work because S0/S2 is not supported. Hence my spotty performance as the lock signal probably tried each device and dropped out because of a delay or checking the controller as the last device. In addition, I did have some wall and distance between the controller and lock.
So after 2.5 years I finally have an answer.
Well done my friend.
Now to make this even better, with your findings, I finally found an answer!
Check out the US product and then frown.
http://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/990/embedpics
Check out the EU product and frown again. 
http://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1325/embedpics
So I’m sure there might be a US based product to do what you want but be extremely careful as you see the US version doesn’t support S0/S2 but the EU product supports S0.
Notice also, the EU product is z-wave+ and the US product is not. It also states the product description on the US device is a “security repeater”.