Does Vera Have the Resources?

Community Playground General Discussions
#21

[quote=“kigmatzomat, post:13, topic:199684”]I don’t mind a monthly/annual fee for software upgrades and the cloud based service like encrypted remote controls/notifications/alexa/GHome/ifttt/etc.

However I won’t use a product that only works if I pay a recurring fee. I saw people burned when the revolve hub turned into a paperweight when nest shut the servers down. It needs to work in local mode regardless of mios servers/account status.[/quote]

I am with the two of you. I don’t mind paying a monthly fee for added value services. I want to pay for VeraProtect to get cellular back-up, but that is not what the offering is at all.

Honestly - the cost of Vera is INSIGNIFICANT compared to my overall cost of HA. So, yes, if Vera would be better/stronger/faster, it would be dumb for me not to pay more for it - and hence upgrade the overall functionality of my overall HA investment.

#22

[quote=“randya, post:12, topic:199684”]

Everything has a cost of ownership!
You can either pay $200 upfront for hardware or pay $few dollars a month…can i give hardware, software, cloud services for free…No…Can I reduce your overall cost…Yes!
As to what models…first of all, happy for you to pay me upfront all these monies (whatever you are paying now)…but i think its not a good model…
here is what i want…
Reduce the cost of hardware…
Create a proper platform for developers so that they can write proper applications and services (not just integration with devices we should have integrated out of box!!!) and push that in our appstore…

This way, we get a continuous revenue stream, You the user get access to very cheap home automation and use it for free and only pay if you use a service that you think is valuable to you, therefore creating an ecosystem for developers as well.
Is it a short term business model. No.
Are we committed to make this happen, you bet your bottom dollar!

We are working on such an exciting projects with ecosystem creating all sort of new applications/services that has huge value to end users, it will unlock the next stage of automation…We are here to catch the next wave…

If this is the direction we are going then I will be out !!! I rather pay the upfront cost and not have to worry about monthly fees. And I don’t want to be nickel and dimed for software apps that should be part of the core anyway. And i don’t want the headaches (stress) of trying to decide who’s app is the right app for what it is I am trying to do. I want a set and forget it, until I decide to change something, then set it and forget it again.

I absolutely expect firmware updates to products I buy for free !!! Almost everything in my house is updated that way: Sony TV, Soundbar, Playstation, Xbox, Pentair Pool module, Sunny Boy Solar web module, iPhone, iPad, Foscam cameras, … I don’t even think I could list everything that has free updates.

You will have to provide examples of what is a “service” that I will be willing to pay for above what the product (Vera) should be doing for me already.

I have a bad feeling about this…[/quote]

I think you must have misread what i wrote…
platform should work with everything connected period…this functionality is not monthly…So imagine Vera, that works with everything out of box for free…nice UI etc…all free…and hardware is starting from $20…
Imagine an app store where we have services (do NOT confuse device integration with apps and services…device integration should be supported natively for free) like Security etc…if you want to subscribe to those services there is a small fee…
So you get much more than what you are getting today with no monthly fees!

#23

[quote=“melih, post:22, topic:199684”][quote=“randya, post:12, topic:199684”]

Everything has a cost of ownership!
You can either pay $200 upfront for hardware or pay $few dollars a month…can i give hardware, software, cloud services for free…No…Can I reduce your overall cost…Yes!
As to what models…first of all, happy for you to pay me upfront all these monies (whatever you are paying now)…but i think its not a good model…
here is what i want…
Reduce the cost of hardware…
Create a proper platform for developers so that they can write proper applications and services (not just integration with devices we should have integrated out of box!!!) and push that in our appstore…

This way, we get a continuous revenue stream, You the user get access to very cheap home automation and use it for free and only pay if you use a service that you think is valuable to you, therefore creating an ecosystem for developers as well.
Is it a short term business model. No.
Are we committed to make this happen, you bet your bottom dollar!

We are working on such an exciting projects with ecosystem creating all sort of new applications/services that has huge value to end users, it will unlock the next stage of automation…We are here to catch the next wave…

If this is the direction we are going then I will be out !!! I rather pay the upfront cost and not have to worry about monthly fees. And I don’t want to be nickel and dimed for software apps that should be part of the core anyway. And i don’t want the headaches (stress) of trying to decide who’s app is the right app for what it is I am trying to do. I want a set and forget it, until I decide to change something, then set it and forget it again.

I absolutely expect firmware updates to products I buy for free !!! Almost everything in my house is updated that way: Sony TV, Soundbar, Playstation, Xbox, Pentair Pool module, Sunny Boy Solar web module, iPhone, iPad, Foscam cameras, … I don’t even think I could list everything that has free updates.

You will have to provide examples of what is a “service” that I will be willing to pay for above what the product (Vera) should be doing for me already.

I have a bad feeling about this…[/quote]

I think you must have misread what i wrote…
platform should work with everything connected period…this functionality is not monthly…So imagine Vera, that works with everything out of box for free…nice UI etc…all free…and hardware is starting from $20…
Imagine an app store where we have services (do NOT confuse device integration with apps and services…device integration should be supported natively for free) like Security etc…if you want to subscribe to those services there is a small fee…
So you get much more than what you are getting today with no monthly fees![/quote]

Now we feel better! A lot of us indeed misunderstood your post.

#24

[quote=“Forzaalfa, post:16, topic:199684”][quote=“melih, post:10, topic:199684”][quote=“Sammy2, post:1, topic:199684”]The new team at Vera seems to have set out on quite a project to overhaul the system. Without a LOT of new unit sales, I’m not so sure they can finance all this. Shall we expect a monthly fee based system going forward? Will we have to pay for each major f/w release or then only be able to stick to the one we’re on?

Questions I have that seem unanswered in all the fanfare.[/quote]

Everything has a cost of ownership!
You can either pay $200 upfront for hardware or pay $few dollars a month…can i give hardware, software, cloud services for free…No…Can I reduce your overall cost…Yes!
As to what models…first of all, happy for you to pay me upfront all these monies (whatever you are paying now)…but i think its not a good model…
here is what i want…
Reduce the cost of hardware…
Create a proper platform for developers so that they can write proper applications and services (not just integration with devices we should have integrated out of box!!!) and push that in our appstore…

This way, we get a continuous revenue stream, You the user get access to very cheap home automation and use it for free and only pay if you use a service that you think is valuable to you, therefore creating an ecosystem for developers as well.
Is it a short term business model. No.
Are we committed to make this happen, you bet your bottom dollar!

We are working on such an exciting projects with ecosystem creating all sort of new applications/services that has huge value to end users, it will unlock the next stage of automation…We are here to catch the next wave…[/quote]

Could you please claify the following:

  1. Will all monthly payment options be just that - optional?
  2. Will my current Vera Plus maintain all the functions I bought it with, without a monthly fee?
  3. Following the previous question - Will it maintain its offline functionality?

I am one of the crowd who really prefers the one time payment model, as there is a significant point to knowing that the setup theoretically can run for years uninterupted by things like payment issues or other external factors.
I can fully understand (and even pay for) some optional functions at additional cost, but preferrably a one time cost. I would even consider buying some good functions at a montly fee, but there is a huge difference between having the option, and beeing forced to pay for it because it’s integral functionality.

This last thing is something i think would drive a lot of people here away, as that is not the concept they (we) bought in to…[/quote]

1.Yes
2.Yes (on top we will expand all these functionality and make sure you don’t need a plugin to get it to work a device…all will be working natively)
3.Yes

One off payment model is NOT going anywhere…
We are reducing the one off payment…and giving you MUCH more for it!!! (today you have to use plugins to get vera to work with many devices…we’ll have it all integrated natively…for free!!!)
All the other services optional…

#25

[quote=“reneboer, post:17, topic:199684”][quote=“melih, post:10, topic:199684”]Everything has a cost of ownership!
You can either pay $200 upfront for hardware or pay $few dollars a month…can i give hardware, software, cloud services for free…No…Can I reduce your overall cost…Yes!
As to what models…first of all, happy for you to pay me upfront all these monies (whatever you are paying now)…but i think its not a good model…
here is what i want…
Reduce the cost of hardware…
Create a proper platform for developers so that they can write proper applications and services (not just integration with devices we should have integrated out of box!!!) and push that in our appstore…

This way, we get a continuous revenue stream, You the user get access to very cheap home automation and use it for free and only pay if you use a service that you think is valuable to you, therefore creating an ecosystem for developers as well.
Is it a short term business model. No.
Are we committed to make this happen, you bet your bottom dollar!

We are working on such an exciting projects with ecosystem creating all sort of new applications/services that has huge value to end users, it will unlock the next stage of automation…We are here to catch the next wave…[/quote]
Hi Melith,

I read between the lines that Apps from the should (could) be payed for. As an App developer my self I would not like Mois to charge for my work. I also do not want to charge for it as that gives false ideas on the level of support people will expect. I do not have the time for anything else than best effort and sometimes that can be months. If I had payed, even just $10,- I would not find that acceptable. It would also make you go head to head with HomeSheer and loose one of the few advantages you have over that platform.

Cheers Rene[/quote]

Rene,

We will create an appstore…we don’t want to call “device integration” an app… We will support every device natively. So to us an app is brand new functionality eg: security, healthcare etc etc…
We will provide an ecosystem for you to create these amazing apps and put it on the appstore… Just like the apple/android appstore if you wish to make your app available for free, you are most welcome to do it and it will be provided for free to all users.

#26

All the other services optional…

What other services?

#27

[quote=“rafale77, post:20, topic:199684”]I want to remind you also who you are competing with: I have been evaluating alternatives and this is what I am finding:

  1. Zway costs a total of $100 for a razberry pie with a software license. The software is infinitely more configurable and stable than the vera. The pace of development however is about the same.
  2. Homeassistant: opensource software. You have to purchase the hardware and at this stage, is light years ahead in terms of integration. I actually need it for many things the Vera can do and definitely would be migrating there (I am already half way) if you are moving to a subscription service.
  3. Homeseer: The more expensive software is much more stable. Can run on multiple platforms.
  4. Openhab: Opensource I found to be less attractive than Homeassistant.

When so much of your functioning code is from the community, how are you going to charge for it?[/quote]

1.we will deliver much better hardware starting from $20
2.our software will work with every device out there natively…

So imagine you pay one off $20 for a hardware that comes with integration with everything out there (thats the brand promise we make to you that we will always integrate everything natively), that includes all the smartphone apps with full scene, rules capabilities, desktop/browser software and so on! All for one off fee!!! NO MONTHLY for this!!!

it also has an appstore to buy other services like security, video recording etc etc…those you pay a small fee for…but all optional!!!

What that means is in order for us to make money we have to give you the best platform cost effectively and must do everything for you to run smart home…(NO MONTHLY FEE!!!)…Only then we will have a user base that might need other things/apps/services that will buy stuff from the appstore…

#28

[quote=“Sender, post:26, topic:199684”]All the other services optional…

What other services?[/quote]

Some examples:
24/7 Security Monitoring where we can alert local authorities …
Video recording in the cloud or local…(not all for a fee…some for free…)
Facial recognition for access control…(not all for a fee…some for free…)
Gesture control (not all for a fee…some for free…)
Some other innovation that we haven’t even thought of that developers will come up with and make available as an app…

The problem is: People think an app is simple integration with a device …Not for us…all device integration must be provided natively…an app to us is a capability that is whole new service…(NOT INTEGRATION).

#29

Cool. Melih, I suggest to write a whitpaper about your plans instead of shards in this forum and post it top right as news.

1 Like
#30

At the moment we have to answer user’s questions…:slight_smile: but sure at some stage we’ll have a whitepaper…

#31

Melih, I think, unfortunately, this guarantees you will always lack support for some device a user wants to use (because if you don’t want to integrate it, it isn’t supported), and you will always be behind the curve of the market in what you do support. It’s a great feature of the current eco-system that any willing developer can create an integration that Vera chooses not do itself, including devices that are created strictly from the user’s own invention.

#32

Melih, I think, unfortunately, this guarantees you will always lack support for some device a user wants to use (because if you don’t want to integrate it, it isn’t supported), and you will always be behind the curve of the market in what you do support. It’s a great feature of the current eco-system that any willing developer can create an integration that Vera chooses not do itself, including devices that are created strictly from the user’s own invention.[/quote]

Our philosophy is: if its a product available for purchase it will be integrated period!
There will be scenerios where people will have custom non public devices. Of course for them we will improve our ecosystem so that developers can write integration plugins.
So we will invest heavily in making sure
1)Integrate everything available (any product sold to consumers)
2)expand and improve the integration plugin ecosystem.
the above two goes hand in hand to be honest. We have to improve the system for ourselves if want to integrate everything and we will make those improvements available to our developers too.

#33

I truly hope you’ll be able to accomplish this.
Right now we’re left in the dark, with zwave and zigbee devices out in the market for years with no or partially working support.

#34

And, let me add, I hope you’ll make everything working offline as well. I have a bad internet connection myself and can’t work with internet only systems.

#35

its a MUST have!!!