Cooper Aspire RF9540-N/RF9542-Z Dimmer Switch Programming

Other Devices & Integrations Lighting & Load Control
#1

In the market for a Z-Wave controller and after discovering a competing product (Indigo, FWIW) can’t distinguish certain functions of these switches (and judging from the response of its forum moderator that it’s just “stupid,” I don’t think there will be any updates to incorporate these functions), I’m looking at the Vera to determine if it can:

The Cooper Wiring Devices Aspire RF9540-N and RF9542-Z use a vertical column of blue LEDs to indicate the current brightness level “setting” and is always lit regardless of whether the switch is in an “on” or “off” state, allowing the “preset” brightness to be adjusted even when the switch is off. There is a separate amber LED to indicate the actual on/off state of the switch.

So to my question: Can the Vera recognize (and thereby program) the distinct differences of “on,”, “off,” and “brightness level?” The competitor’s product always assumes the “brightness” level also corresponds to it’s on/off state, meaning if the switch is “off” then it assumes (incorrectly for these switches) that the brightness level/setting is always “0”.

Since the remote switch settings (On/Off/Brightness Level) are completely independent from the intended master (and other remote switches for a 3+ way setup), I must be able to synchronize all the settings with all the “associated” switches: if a remote’s brightness level is adjusted, regardless of whether light circuit is actually on or not, I must be able to match all the other switches’ brightness level “setting” to the source switch without changing the current on/off state. Since the competing product assumes that all dimmer commands are basically a “brightness level” event, it maps a brightness level of “0” to “off”, and any other brightness level to “on,” preventing me from independently querying or setting the brightness level separate from the on/off state; it will always assume a “brightness level” event other than the lowest setting is also an “on” event resulting in turning the switch on even if you don’t want that to happen.

Can I operate these 9540/9542 switches correctly with the Vera?

#2

Your details of your question are not 100% clear, but I will answer since I have extensive use of Vera UI5 and 7 and have these dimmers and remotes. There are major bugs with Vera. I have tried to work with Vera for over a year and whenever I ask about zwave versions and issues that are happening with the Dimmers (both remotes and masters) it seems to go into a black hole, which is a shame. Support for really technical issues are VERY slow. Routine issues are now quite quick with Vera.

Now to answer the basic question: Will it work, yes but I do not recommend Vera.

Now we get into the weeds and oh-by-the-ways:

There is a scenario where if you use the controller to manage a master, the remote will not update unless you set a special variable. I believe this is true probably for about any controller except their own. This setting will not correct the setting of the dimmer level while still off. I can ask about this with the Eaton contacts I have, there might be a solution, but not sure. This might be doable with Vera’s Lua code option.

Over time, the lights on the dimmers will fail. That means they will go dark or be lit weird. This is a interaction problem with Vera’s zwave version, we know it but Vera will never confirm, so this is why I have to NOT recommend Vera… they will not answer that question. What ZWave library versions are running per checkbox option that is set? (there are 3 options) There are known buggy ZWave versions out there and it is suspected that this is the problem causing issues with the dimmers. But since Vera is jerking me around for about a year and I have worked everything else I could in the mean time, you will be stuck with the same problem I have now. I will likely be moving to the HomeSeer Pro. To reset a Master is easy, you can use the air gap switch, but this also happens to the remotes and only way to reset them is the breaker. Eaton, btw, was very pleasant to work with in troubleshooting this problem.

I could not recommend Vera because of: The lack support and the core buggy zwave libraries they use that will cause problems with your dimmers.

-Walt

#3

[quote=“wholm, post:2, topic:183813”]I could not recommend Vera because of: The lack support and the core buggy zwave libraries they use that will cause problems with your dimmers.

-Walt[/quote]

I wish you chimed in just a wee bit earlier, because I just pulled the trigger today on a Vera3 :-/

For the near term, I would be just happy using the Vera simply to “associate” the master/remotes to each other then not have the Vera process any commands between them.

I only need a Z-Wave controller because I didn’t realize when purchasing the 9540’s that such a controller is required until after I installed them; Cooper does not offer any other LED-compatible dimmer switches so I had no choice than to get the 9540’s.

Going forward, I will certainly be taking advantage of having a Z-Wave controller because I will also be getting a Schlage Camelot Touchscreen handleset which is Z-Wave compatible and expand from there.

#4

Eaton sells a handheld unit that can do the associations for you.

I am sure you could always return the Vera unit, if you just purchased it.

#5

[quote=“wholm, post:4, topic:183813”]Eaton sells a handheld unit that can do the associations for you.

I am sure you could always return the Vera unit, if you just purchased it.[/quote]

Are you referring to the Aspire RF RFHDCSG Handheld Controller? I already looked at that but at the lowest price of $213 shipped, it was way more expensive than the $159 Vera3 I just bought off Amazon. I actually found the RFTDCSG Tabletop Controller to be a little cheaper and seemingly more powerful but still ~$200 shipped.

But the Vera3 should give me more flexibility in the future as I add new Z-Wave devices but don’t anticipate adding any more Cooper Aspire Z-Wave switches (which are in the kitchen and family room only).

#6

This issue does concern me. Are you referring to the “lights on the dimmers” as the light fixtures themselves, or the status LEDs on the fronts of the Aspire dimmer switches? And if its the status LEDs, how did you determine that it was the Vera itself that caused the Aspire LED status lights to “go dark or be lit weird?” I would assume that external controllers can only send commands that the device itself needs to interpret and internally adjust its LED status lights accordingly, unless the Vera is directly manipulating the LEDs.

If it’s the light fixtures themselves that becomes unpredictable, again, I assume that any controller simply sends the commands that the Master 9540 switch intercepts, which in turn physically adjusts the light fixtures (on/off/brightness). So is it that the Vera was sending incorrect commands to the master dimmer that was determined to be the culprit?

Under which Vera UI (5, 6, and/or 7) have you experienced these issues (and “library” version, since you mentioned it)?

Have you tried simply “associating” the switches and have them run independent of any controller to see if the issue presents itself under that setup?

I can certainly relate to your frustration with support: I was testing out a trial version of Indigo and inquiring about Aspire RF support but got pretty rude, then dismissive responses which the final retort was basically submit a feature request though they may not get to it (if ever) due to their “backlog” of requests. Hence my selection of the Vera, even though I, too, heard some grumblings of support as the company appears to be focusing on UI7 release verses device compatibility and issues.

#7

The remotes can fail to operate as expected. This is due to the fact the controller is likely trying to reprogram the switch and fails and leaves out the group 1 associations. Masters will work fine usually and they have a disconnect that can locally power cycle the device.

I am still working with Vera, trying to downgrade to 2.78 so this bug doesn’t cause a problem. 3.2 uses the latest Zwave 4.52 they say which is known to be buggy. There are service packs they can apply to fix this problem. But since there is no way to confirm what they are actually running without them telling us, then you will not know when the problem is fixed.

The lights themselves will not become unpredictable just the switches. They should more than likely function if they are a master device. The remotes on the other hand may not because they lose their group 1 due to the Vera.

-Walt

#8

I would like to update this, I went through a long process to get this working. I switched to HomeSeer since Cooper OEMs their controller and there was an issue with Zwave builds on the Vera (possibly) at the time. Well I switched to HomeSeer and same problem happened. I had to reprogram all the dimmers with the latest code and all the problems stopped. The issue was with Cooper and it had to do with the software build. If you purchases the dimmers by the time of my last post in 2015, it would have been fine since the firmwares on the dimmers were up to date by then.

#9

I have Cooper products that are older than 2015. Can you explain how you reprogrammed the dimmers with the latest code, or point me to a resource concerning this?

Thank you for your anticipated advice.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

#10

I would rather chat privately as some information they might consider not for public.

#11

Understandable.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

#12

I have the Cooper switches in question. If you want to go the cheap, cheap route to associate them you can use an Aeon mini-mote (essentially controller-less), I was using that before I even had a Vera to associate them. As I was just doing basic things like turn on the floor lamp in sync with the light switch. Or adding additional switches in a virtual 3 way by adding the Cooper battery powered dimmer.

Later I moved to the Vera Edge and have not had any problems (I am on firmware 1.7.1248 which was the last good firmware before they went to the buggy z-wave+ self healing firmware on the Z-wave chip)

I did have to write a little bit a LUA code to keep the dimmer LED light on the aux switch in sync with the master, since direct association doesn’t work if you manipulate master via a scene. You can muck with both LEDs on the aux switch using the advanced scene editor functions or LUA code (with out turning the master on or off), you cannot muck with the LED dimmer settings on the master with out turning on the light however as Auggie described (aka you cannot preset the dimmer level to something else while the light is off on the master).

Wholm, can you send me private info on these switches. I have been running them this way for almost 2 years, if the Vera is going to burn them out, I definitely want to know about it, most of my switches are older. I have never found a way to get in touch with Cooper or Eaton support, that knows anything about these switches, I would love to talk to them about a different problem I am having

#13

[quote=“shallowearth, post:12, topic:183813”]I have the Cooper switches in question. If you want to go the cheap, cheap route to associate them you can use an Aeon mini-mote (essentially controller-less), I was using that before I even had a Vera to associate them. As I was just doing basic things like turn on the floor lamp in sync with the light switch. Or adding additional switches in a virtual 3 way by adding the Cooper battery powered dimmer.

Later I moved to the Vera Edge and have not had any problems (I am on firmware 1.7.1248 which was the last good firmware before they went to the buggy z-wave+ self healing firmware on the Z-wave chip)

I did have to write a little bit a LUA code to keep the dimmer LED light on the aux switch in sync with the master, since direct association doesn’t work if you manipulate master via a scene. You can muck with both LEDs on the aux switch using the advanced scene editor functions or LUA code (with out turning the master on or off), you cannot muck with the LED dimmer settings on the master with out turning on the light however as Auggie described (aka you cannot preset the dimmer level to something else while the light is off on the master).

Wholm, can you send me private info on these switches. I have been running them this way for almost 2 years, if the Vera is going to burn them out, I definitely want to know about it, most of my switches are older. I have never found a way to get in touch with Cooper or Eaton support, that knows anything about these switches, I would love to talk to them about a different problem I am having[/quote]

I think I know what you are referring to. Are you talking about how the remote dimming levels do not show in Vera and you cannot control them with a scene? There is a solution to this that is not documented, well it is but finding that document is impossible. On the master, you have to go into the advanced settings and set parameter number 10 to a value of 1. I have to find those exact instructions again. What this does is it sets off a function in the master to tell the remote to set itself. Now, this is only the case when the automation controls the master, you never have to do this when you press the master or remote physically. Also this is only set in the master, not in the remote.

I actually think this worked better with Vera than with HomeSeer. HomeSeer exposes the device as a dimmable device and the expectation is that when you set the master to a level, that you should do the same with the remote(s). Pros and Cons to all of this.

The update will not affect this setting in any way. The update is only needed if you see odd behavior like multiple lights staying lit on the dimmer or weird functionality in that the dimmer ramps up and then turns off even those it’s on 100%. Like I said, odd behavior and this only started showing with a larger set up really.

You want to avoid needing this update, btw. It takes some expertise and there is no warranty. And it costs money for the programming tool. There is risk of blowing out the tool too if you do it wrong and make a mistake of leaving the power on to the device.

If I understood your problem correctly, then if you can wait, I ordered the new Vera and I am planning to switch back to Vera… maybe… so much to reprogram! Once I do get the device, I will get the exact settings you need to do to make that work.

#14

Here are the notes I used to set this setting on the Master dimmers:

configuration setting index 10, hex byte with a value of 1

It’s an advanced setting for the device, you have to set variable 10, its not something you pick from a pull down or anything like that. I cannot find my screen shots I had from UI 5.

#15

Interesting, I have never seen any documentation on parameter 10 before, I might have to try it out.

As far as the problem with Cooper switches, It sounds like what you are saying is that recent firmwares on Vera have a tendancy to wipe out the Group 1 associations on the switch correct? And that if that is the case than you need to update the firmware on the switch, or Vera needs to fix their bug.

Glad I stuck on the firmware I am on!

#16

Can you take out one of your master dimmers and one of your remote dimmers and tell me what version sticker is on there?

Also the removal of Group one is 1, I cannot comment on that because although that may have happened (I don’t have that documented specifically), my issues were much more obvious. For example, on the master dimmer, the orange led would be on but also about 3-4 other blue LEDs at the same time. The airgap switch was used to power cycle the dimmer to return function. In some cases the dimmer would actually still operate in the background but the feedback was odd, even sometimes all LEDs were out.

My issues with HomeSeer are due to poor coding releases and poor design choices. For example, they do have a Linux based approach but only support it in a specific debian Linux. I target enterprise solutions and their ZNet device is a great fit for that, I need this running on CentOS 7. I had it working but turned out I was using too new of a mono version and it was corrupting the serialized objects being written to their DB.

And then lets talk about the DB, their choice is SQL Lite which is notorious for consistency problems (say a system crash or power outage).

On top of that, even though I managed to get the owner on the phone when I demanded an answer one time, later when I asked about their serialized data structure, they acted like it was something proprietary. It’s just a serialized object for crying out loud. The problem was they were not delivering enough information via JSON interface that I was used to with Vera. So again stuck. The “event” builder they have is workable but primitive based on the stuff I have worked on. I gave them input on design and they have completely ignored it. They finally stated that they were not really designed to work in a commercial environment… oh yeah, their supported environment Windows, it doesn’t even run as a service and if you know the tricks to do that, don’t. That DB thing I told you about, one of the reboots you will cook your DB and have to restore, I hope you have a back up before that reboot :).

I am just stuck with no perfect solution. I need to run ZWave hardware separate from the controller (HomeSeer does this) but I need the more solid/simple design of Vera… and the superior interface!

Wow, that was a tangent.

#17

Hmm, I have about 20 Cooper switches in my mesh (combination of Switches, Dimmers, Aux Switches, and Battery Switches) and haven’t really had any problems, but I am guessing in a commercial setting you are talking way more than. However one thing I have noticed is that they seem to be a little more sensitive than most switches to malfunctioning/bad neighbor switches. Twice I have had problems with my Coopers when there was a bad node in the network that seemed to freak them out (causing them to lose association, fall off the network, or other bad stuff, like you were describing). In both cases it was a bad z-wave outlet that was near the Cooper Switches (but not even associated to them) that was causing the problem. Got rid of the offending device and the Cooper’s went back to stable. But you can only figure stuff like that out if you are going slow and start seeing something destabilize after you installed something bad. I have no idea why the Coopers are so sensitive to such things.

#18

In my home I have about 80 switches, dimmers and remote dimmers of Cooper, other vendors include Aeon, Linear, Evolve, Pella and Trane. I am currently having an issue all of a sudden with the Thermostat locking up but that seems to be something with my ZNet device. Just last night the ZNet device decided it was time to take a break, a reboot didn’t work, no, I had to go to it and power cycle it of course at midnight.

I haven’t had any other issues where the Cooper devices failed because of another device and unlike Leviton, I never had a Cooper device go bad. 2/30 over 6 years for Leviton, 0/80 for Cooper over about 3 years now.

#19
Here are the notes I used to set this setting on the Master dimmers:

configuration setting index 10, hex byte with a value of 1

THANKS…

This information was incredibly useful to me. I am building a house and decided to make the lighting smart. I settled on Cooper 9540/9542 switches. I was aware of the “sync problem” using these switches for 3-way circuits, but I figured I’d just have to do a lot of work (as others have done) to make it all work. The electrician is starting to install fixtures, so altho I had 9540-Ns (and tested them – which had their own problems); I had no 9542-Zs until the other day. The 2 switches worked together fine manually once they were associated, but when used with the Vera, the 2 switches would not sync. Indeed, if I turned on the test light with Vera, and then turned off the light manually with the 9342-Z, Vera continued to think the 9540-N was still on. I was resigned to a bunch of research and “programming” before I purchased the remaining 9542-Zs I need, when I found this thread…my lucky day!

I set the 9540-N parameter 10 to 1 (under “device options”), and VOILA, everything syncs just fine. Later I did a thorough search of the internet looking for any documentation or other reference to this “trick”. Apparently, Cooper is keeping this parameter 10 a secret!!

#20

Hmm, is parameter also suppose to work with the RF9501/RF9517 switches as well?
I tried it putting the parameter on the RF9501 and it allowed to me add the parameter, but I don’t see it keeping the RF9517 LED in-sync if you control the RF9501 from the Vera.

Maybe that parameter only works with the Dimmers and not the on off switch version? I will play around with it a little more tonight to make sure I just didn’t make a mistake or didn’t give it enough time to change behavior. Good news is that it is super easy to just have a scene that triggers from the master to set the aux when using it from the Vera, the dimmer is the more tricky one to make work right anyway.