I have a bunch of the Cooper RF9540-N installed on my 2 way switches, but now I have a couple of three way switches I want to use with the cooper. Am confused …
The RF9542-Z says
“RF Accessory Dimmer ASPIRE RF Accessory Dimmers replace regular switches or dimmers to provide local and remote ON/OFF/DIM/BRIGHT control. The device also provides multi-location control or virtual 3-way remote ON/OFF/DIM/BRIGHT control without the need for traditional 3-way wiring or a dedicated traveler wire”
But my 3 way switches are already wired for three way. So do I just buy two of the 9542s? Or is there a master/slave dimmer combo?
The 9542 is used as a wireless remote control for the master 9540. The 9542 does not use the 3 way wiring in the traditional way. You wire it such that power is sent from the remote location to the master location, which then turns the light on and off. The 9542 does not switch power on and off. You have to use association to make them sync up with each other. Adding another 9542 is just adding another remote. They don’t have to be wired in any way to each other either, as long as they all have power to run themselves. Then just associate the switches to each other in Vera.
I am not totally understanding what you said… because it seems that the description would help me if I didn’t have a switch wired three way. So in my case, where they already are wired for 3 way… how do I handle this? Do I simply use the neutral to power on the slave switch and then associate it as you say?
The 9540 should have instructions on how to use the accessory switches from standard 3 way wiring.
In a normal setup (1 switch, 1 light), power goes from the breaker box to the (master) switch, then to the light. Generally white (neutral) goes directly to the light, and the black (common) goes to the switch, then when switched on, to the light.
In a 3 way, power goes from the breaker box, to the remote switch, then to the master switch, then to the light.
Power travels from the remote switch to the master switch through one of two wires, depending on which way the remote switch is toggled.
With the Cooper, what you’re doing is wiring up the slave location as if it didn’t exist i.e. connect the wires so that you have a neutral, common, and ground going up to the master with no slave switch at all. You should have one extra wire that isn’t doing anything between the switch locations when you do this. That’s a traveler wire ( one of two wires in the 3 way), sometimes shown in the color red on a schematic. The Cooper instructions just have you connect the two wires to each other between the switch locations, so in essence they’re doing the same thing. You still have a third white wire (neutral), and a ground (green).
Here’s the short of it:
Black, white, and ground (green) coming from breaker to remote location.
Bypass remote switch (remove it) - and connect black, white, and ground wires to the wires going to the master.
Connect master switch as usual to black, white, and ground wires coming from remote location.
Once it turns on/off the light normally, insert the slave at the remote location by tying into the black, white, and ground wires there. The remote just needs power. It doesn’t do any switching.
Associate both switches to each other.
The tricky part for me in my old house was that all the wires were black. In the end it didn’t matter. I had 3 wires coming from the breaker to the remote location (common, neutral, ground). I needed 3 wires (of the 4 available) going to master location. Wired up the master, inserted the remote, then associate the two.
I just want add my 2 bits as I just installed the 9540 and a pair of 9542’s without realizing that these must be “associated” in a Z-Wave network; there is no way to to “pair” them physically outside a Z-Wave network, either through traditional 3-way wiring (which if you really look carefully at the wiring diagram on the instruction sheet, it shows that you bypass the 3-way by basically bridging the travelers together in order to provide constant power to hot/common leads of the switches, so you can’t use this method even if you wanted to; but yes, I agree with you that the instructions’ ambiguity may lead you to believe you can “pair” the 9542’s and 9540 via traditional wiring with no other intermediary device required) or through some other physical means on the devices themselves, which there are none.
My e-mails to Cooper Wiring Devices technical support for clarification have so far gone unanswered after two weeks, and no where is it stated in the very basic wiring instructions included or available brochures does it state explicitly that a Z-Wave controller is required in order to have a 9542 remote “control” a 9540 master though apparently it does.
Hence here I am today on fence-line trying to select a Z-Wave controller and thus trolling these forums and competitors’ forums.
[quote=“Auggie, post:5, topic:183482”]I just want add my 2 bits as I just installed the 9540 and a pair of 9542’s without realizing that these must be “associated” in a Z-Wave network; there is no way to to “pair” them physically outside a Z-Wave network, either through traditional 3-way wiring (which if you really look carefully at the wiring diagram on the instruction sheet, it shows that you bypass the 3-way by basically bridging the travelers together in order to provide constant power to hot/common leads of the switches, so you can’t use this method even if you wanted to; but yes, I agree with you that the instructions’ ambiguity may lead you to believe you can “pair” the 9542’s and 9540 via traditional wiring with no other intermediary device required) or through some other physical means on the devices themselves, which there are none.
My e-mails to Cooper Wiring Devices technical support for clarification have so far gone unanswered after two weeks, and no where is it stated in the very basic wiring instructions included or available brochures does it state explicitly that a Z-Wave controller is required in order to have a 9542 remote “control” a 9540 master though apparently it does.
Hence here I am today on fence-line trying to select a Z-Wave controller and thus trolling these forums and competitors’ forums.[/quote]
I guess it doesn’t say explicitly that a controller is required, but it does say use the association function. That function can only be done by a controller of some kind that I know of. But you’re right its not stated in a very obvious manner. I don’t think you can associate any z-wave device with any manufacturer without a controller which supports that device. For instance, you can’t buy a Leviton controller and have it associate a Cooper device. I have a Cooper tabletop controller with the LCD and it doesn’t see any of the settings in my Leviton switches. Luckily Vera will associate many device types.
Can you tell me if the Cooper tabletop controller is able to synchronize the dimmer settings between all the “associated” dimmers, even if the light load is off?
And for that matter, the Vera?
What I mean is that the remote dimmer brightness level is independent of all the other switches and really it’s up to the controller to respond, set the master, then hopefully, set any other remote dimmer switch brightness level indicator to match.
I haven’t yet bought a controller and a software-based one I was contemplating cannot synchronize dimmer brightness level setting across all associated switches when the light is off because it always assumes a brightness level of 0 is “off” and therefore sending any brightness level commands to the switches will also turn those switches on.
Can you tell me if the Cooper tabletop controller is able to synchronize the dimmer settings between all the “associated” dimmers, even if the light load is off?
And for that matter, the Vera?
What I mean is that the remote dimmer brightness level is independent of all the other switches and really it’s up to the controller to respond, set the master, then hopefully, set any other remote dimmer switch brightness level indicator to match.
I haven’t yet bought a controller and a software-based one I was contemplating cannot synchronize dimmer brightness level setting across all associated switches when the light is off because it always assumes a brightness level of 0 is “off” and therefore sending any brightness level commands to the switches will also turn those switches on.
I hope I made sense.[/quote]
I have the Cooper dimmers and switches, with n-way associations setup (more complex than just a 3-way). Once you setup the associations via a programmer/controller, the dimmers no longer need the controller. I can dim the load level of the remote/accessory dimmer while the light is off and the master dimmer will follow right along, and vice a versa.
Can you tell me if the Cooper tabletop controller is able to synchronize the dimmer settings between all the “associated” dimmers, even if the light load is off?
And for that matter, the Vera?
What I mean is that the remote dimmer brightness level is independent of all the other switches and really it’s up to the controller to respond, set the master, then hopefully, set any other remote dimmer switch brightness level indicator to match.
I haven’t yet bought a controller and a software-based one I was contemplating cannot synchronize dimmer brightness level setting across all associated switches when the light is off because it always assumes a brightness level of 0 is “off” and therefore sending any brightness level commands to the switches will also turn those switches on.
I hope I made sense.[/quote]
The Cooper tabletop controller doesn’t do anything more for association than Vera does. It does however, let me adjust the internal settings on the switch such as ramp rate on dimmers, time delay, and a few other functions specific to Cooper. I don’t think I can do that with Vera, but I could be wrong. I’ve never tried it.
I’m not 100% sure I know what you’re trying to say. The preset dim level that’s indicated on the switch when its off doesn’t sync. I can press the dim toggle and preset the dim level to something, but any other associated switches to this one doesn’t also preset their LEDs. However, if I turn the light on, the others will match the dim level. It just won’t show on the others while they’re off. Those switches will just indicate what they were last left on. At least that’s the way the Cooper ones work.
Can you tell me if the Cooper tabletop controller is able to synchronize the dimmer settings between all the “associated” dimmers, even if the light load is off?
And for that matter, the Vera?
What I mean is that the remote dimmer brightness level is independent of all the other switches and really it’s up to the controller to respond, set the master, then hopefully, set any other remote dimmer switch brightness level indicator to match.
I haven’t yet bought a controller and a software-based one I was contemplating cannot synchronize dimmer brightness level setting across all associated switches when the light is off because it always assumes a brightness level of 0 is “off” and therefore sending any brightness level commands to the switches will also turn those switches on.
I hope I made sense.[/quote]
I have the Cooper dimmers and switches, with n-way associations setup (more complex than just a 3-way). Once you setup the associations via a programmer/controller, the dimmers no longer need the controller. I can dim the load level of the remote/accessory dimmer while the light is off and the master dimmer will follow right along, and vice a versa.[/quote]
Can you tell me through which controller you setup the “associations?” So when you “no longer need the controller,” it can be completely powered off/removed/discarded and the “associated” lights still work in concert with one another? I definitely would prefer this setup in case the controller ever goes belly up I will still have functioning switches.
Can you tell me if the Cooper tabletop controller is able to synchronize the dimmer settings between all the “associated” dimmers, even if the light load is off?
And for that matter, the Vera?
What I mean is that the remote dimmer brightness level is independent of all the other switches and really it’s up to the controller to respond, set the master, then hopefully, set any other remote dimmer switch brightness level indicator to match.
I haven’t yet bought a controller and a software-based one I was contemplating cannot synchronize dimmer brightness level setting across all associated switches when the light is off because it always assumes a brightness level of 0 is “off” and therefore sending any brightness level commands to the switches will also turn those switches on.
I hope I made sense.[/quote]
I have the Cooper dimmers and switches, with n-way associations setup (more complex than just a 3-way). Once you setup the associations via a programmer/controller, the dimmers no longer need the controller. I can dim the load level of the remote/accessory dimmer while the light is off and the master dimmer will follow right along, and vice a versa.[/quote]
Can you tell me through which controller you setup the “associations?” So when you “no longer need the controller,” it can be completely powered off/removed/discarded and the “associated” lights still work in concert with one another? I definitely would prefer this setup in case the controller ever goes belly up I will still have functioning switches.[/quote]
I believe @Katmai already answered this, but basically, just about any Z=wave controller that can send association parameters can do this. I did it with Vera, you can also do with with obviously a Cooper RF programmer/controller, and i’m pretty just about any Z-wave controller can program the initial associations.
Can you tell me if the Cooper tabletop controller is able to synchronize the dimmer settings between all the “associated” dimmers, even if the light load is off?
And for that matter, the Vera?
What I mean is that the remote dimmer brightness level is independent of all the other switches and really it’s up to the controller to respond, set the master, then hopefully, set any other remote dimmer switch brightness level indicator to match.
I haven’t yet bought a controller and a software-based one I was contemplating cannot synchronize dimmer brightness level setting across all associated switches when the light is off because it always assumes a brightness level of 0 is “off” and therefore sending any brightness level commands to the switches will also turn those switches on.
I hope I made sense.[/quote]
I have the Cooper dimmers and switches, with n-way associations setup (more complex than just a 3-way). Once you setup the associations via a programmer/controller, the dimmers no longer need the controller. I can dim the load level of the remote/accessory dimmer while the light is off and the master dimmer will follow right along, and vice a versa.[/quote]
Can you tell me through which controller you setup the “associations?” So when you “no longer need the controller,” it can be completely powered off/removed/discarded and the “associated” lights still work in concert with one another? I definitely would prefer this setup in case the controller ever goes belly up I will still have functioning switches.[/quote]
I believe @Katmai already answered this, but basically, just about any Z=wave controller that can send association parameters can do this. I did it with Vera, you can also do with with obviously a Cooper RF programmer/controller, and i’m pretty just about any Z-wave controller can program the initial associations.[/quote]
According to Katmai’s response, his “association” apparently is not the same as how you described it in that he states that the brightness level setting does not get synchronized across all “linked” switches and thus are set independently of the others; whichever switch turns on the light or whichever dimmer button is pressed while the light is on, that’s the brightness level that gets carried to the lights themselves but the brightness level indicators on the other switches do not get adjusted.
It sounds like how I setup my Indigo software (trial version) where I’m simply using the controller to intercept and interpret all the pertinent switches and it’s up to the controller to send to the targeted switches the desired operations (the trial version does not give me access to any advanced “programming” features, and nor can it synchronize brightness level settings when the lights are off due it’s inherent design which assumes any brightness level above 0 turns on the light). As I said, I want to actually just program the switches directly to “associate” them to specific switches then hopefully they will operate independently from the controller, present or not.
So I hope I can do precisely what I described through the Vera.
Maybe there was some confusion, or maybe its I who is confused. Either way…what I was saying is that once you associate the switches, they’ll match dim levels up and down while they’re turned on. When off, the Cooper switches have little LEDs to show you where the dim level it preset to for when you turn it on. That preset dim level doesn’t sync. If I change it on one switch, the preset doesn’t change on the others. If I turn on the light however, the other associated switches will come on and match dim level.
I use Vera mostly to control the associations as its easier, but they both work. The Cooper controller doesn’t work with my Leviton switches, as it can’t see anything other than the switch being on or off. It won’t do any programming. As far as I can tell it only works completely with the Cooper stuff.
Once devices are associated, a controller isn’t needed to keep the association.
[quote=“Katmai, post:13, topic:183482”]Maybe there was some confusion, or maybe its I who is confused. Either way…what I was saying is that once you associate the switches, they’ll match dim levels up and down while they’re turned on. When off, the Cooper switches have little LEDs to show you where the dim level it preset to for when you turn it on. That preset dim level doesn’t sync. If I change it on one switch, the preset doesn’t change on the others. If I turn on the light however, the other associated switches will come on and match dim level.
I use Vera mostly to control the associations as its easier, but they both work. The Cooper controller doesn’t work with my Leviton switches, as it can’t see anything other than the switch being on or off. It won’t do any programming. As far as I can tell it only works completely with the Cooper stuff.
Once devices are associated, a controller isn’t needed to keep the association.[/quote]
No, you weren’t confused and you have confirmed that in your setup, your Cooper dimmer switches do not sync the brightness level across all switches when the lights are off.
According to TC1, his Cooper switches do. And his operational setup is exactly what I want.
I’m not sure what is the purpose of having the light level leds match when the lights are OFF.
Here are the use cases:
You have switch A and B.
Turn lights on from switch A, they will goto what level was indicated on A before you turned them on.
Adjust light levels from either A or B, lights will adjust and the led level indicators will change on both switches.
Turn off light from either switch. At this point both switch led levels will match.
Sometime later walk up to either switch A or B, you see the preset level and don’t like it, so you change level before turning on light. You turn on light from that switch, both switches will now indicate the same light level.
[quote=“TC1, post:15, topic:183482”]I’m not sure what is the purpose of having the light level leds match when the lights are OFF.
Here are the use cases:
You have switch A and B.
Turn lights on from switch A, they will goto what level was indicated on A before you turned them on.
Adjust light levels from either A or B, lights will adjust and the led level indicators will change on both switches.
Turn off light from either switch. At this point both switch led levels will match.
Sometime later walk up to either switch A or B, you see the preset level and don’t like it, so you change level before turning on light. You turn on light from that switch, both switches will now indicate the same light level.
What am I missing here?[/quote]
I’m just going by what you quoted here:
To me, if you are going to “preset” a brightness level at an n-way switch when the light load is off, it doesn’t make sense that it does not propagate to the other switches, for when you do have the need to turn it on at that brightness level, you shouldn’t have to remember which switch you preset it at.
I have a 4-way so there are three places the brightness level can be adjusted so the feature of being able to adjust brightness level while off is rather useless if it doesn’t carry over to the other switches in these larger n-ways.
If it really doesn’t operate like that as you implied in your first post, then so be it. Yes, I’m being OCD, but as I said, for a single switch, or maybe even a 3-way, not having the brightness level preset propagating may not be such a big deal. But these Aspire switches are on the higher end of the price scale, and with the ability to adjust brightness while off, they should propagate that setting across associated switches… in my opinion.
I have a 4-way so there are three places the brightness level can be adjusted so the feature of being able to adjust brightness level while off is rather useless if it doesn't carry over to the other switches in these larger n-ways.
Again, what is the use case? What is the actual use case where if they were out of sync while off it would cause an issue or lack of convenience??? You haven’t stated any downside yet.
I have a 4-way so there are three places the brightness level can be adjusted so the feature of being able to adjust brightness level while off is rather useless if it doesn’t carry over to the other switches in these larger n-ways.
Again, what is the use case? What is the actual use case where if they were out of sync while off it would cause an issue or lack of convenience??? You haven’t stated any downside yet.[/quote]
Setting the brightness level at one switch while off during the day, say to half, then at night turning on the lights from a different switch that was set full.
I think that very clearly states a downside. Not the end of the world, but inconvenient yes. Why would I preset a level then have to redo it because I didn’t turn on the lights from the same switch?
I really don’t understand your point of trying to convince me of some world shattering usefulness that must be a prerequisite to have this implicit feature. Why the heck do we have dimmers anyways? Lights should simply be on and off, and anything else is just foo-foo for the morbidly rich and lazy. Why in the world do we need Z-Wave at all, period? Why can’t we just live with the simply mechanical switches of yesteryear?
We are all fat and lazy and should throw away all remotes to force us to get up to the TV and change channels and volume. Wait, where ARE my TV buttons for the channel and volume…
There’s more than one way to skin the HA cat. I have all my light levels in various rooms in the house automated by either amount of ambient light in the room, time of day, or a preset scene selection. I don’t even have to touch the dimmer switch manually.
I don’t think TC1 was saying his Coopers sync their presets. If he did, I’d like to know what switches he has. I’m guessing they’re the exact same ones as mine! lol
As an aside, can you sync presets on any z-wave dimmers? I mean there aren’t that many out there with LED level displays to begin with. I know my Leviton’s don’t either.
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