Complete automation noob. Check my parts list?

Community Playground Getting Started & Initial Setup
1

Hi everyone!

I’m buying a new home and my plan has always been to buy a Nest thermostat, but just recently have I heard about Z-wave stuff. My understanding is that I can buy the following products (or interchangeable brands) and it’ll all work together. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

1x Nest 2 thermostat

1x Mi Casa Verda VeraLite Controller
4x Schlage RS100HC V N N SL Home Door and Window Sensor (front door, back door, garage door, basement door)
2x Kwikset Home Connect 910TRL ZW 15 SMT Traditional Deadbolt with Z-Wave (front door, back door)
4x Jasco 45609 Z-Wave Wireless Lighting Control On/Off Switch (various lights, ceiling fan)
1x Aeon Labs DSB09104-ZWUS - Z-Wave Smart Energy Meter

I’d also like to get a z-wave smoke detector or two, and I’ve looked into using a z-wave outlet unit to activate the garage door opener.

Based on this stuff (and my existing router), I should be able to monitor and lock/unlock my doors, control my lights, and adjust the nest via the veralite, right? I should also be able to monitor electricity usage of wherever I hook up the energy meter.

And if I can get some z wave smoke detectors, I can set up scenes to turn on my hallway lights if smoke is detected, for example. Right?

And if I ever decide that I want to spend $500 on one, I could get a z wave water valve and have it turn on a sprinkler for x number of minutes at the same time every day, I assume?

Finally, based on my understanding, I can buy some wifi IP cameras and once added to my network, the veralite can work with those too, right? Or do they have to be specific Z wave cameras?

Finally I’m wondering what other nifty z-wave devices there are… Every time I find a reseller I think I’ve seen it all, then I find a cool new z wave product. Is there a relatively complete list somewhere?

Thanks!

2

Your list looks good, though there are some minor issues.

  1. The Nest thermostat is not Z-Wave. There is/are plugin(s) available to integrate Vera to Nest control but know that it is not Z-Wave nor officially supported.

  2. I’ve yet to see a Z-Wave smoke detector in the U.S. Due to liability issues and low demand, I would not expect to see one, ever.

  3. I think you’d be better off building some sort of relay controller for your sprinklers, than the $500 route. But, is Z-Wave control really necessary? A RainBird programmable timer will be cheaper, easier to use, and just as effective.

  4. There are no Z-Wave cameras. There are unscrupulous sellers that advertise “Z-Wave cameras” that are simply WiFi. Yes, most IP cameras work fine with Vera, wired or WiFi.

  5. Nifty is in the eye of the beholder. It looks like you are off to a nifty start.

3

Thanks for your reply!

All answers are what I expected, minus the smoke detector answer. That’s a bummer, but I guess I’m not surprised. Regulations for “strictly safety” devices like smoke detectors are very tight here in the states. I’m guessing importing one isn’t an option because European z wave is a different frequency, yes?

What’s the consensus on sellers here? Can I get a good package deal on these parts (minus the nest and maybe the veralite) from a specific reseller, or am I better off flexing my amazon prime?

4

Have you looked at the alternative of a security system that integrates with you vera. There a a number of brands and as part of whole of house solution they offer a lot of options.

5

I really haven’t considered that because I’m trying to stay super low budget and whole security systems tend to be very expensive and have install/monthly expenses.

6

A DSC 1832 or 1864 alarm with an EnvisaLink 3 IP interface is one of the best things you could ever do. Monthly monitoring is not compulsory, the gear is pretty cheap and you can add more sensors as time and money permits. Meanwhile you can actually use it as an alarm system, inc smoke alarms.

7

I looked up those products but I don’t really see what they’d do for me. I want to avoid the whole “walk in the house and enter the key code on the panel to disarm the system” bit. I just want remote control and surveillance. It seems that those products are for actual home security systems. Would they be in place of a veralite or in addition to?

8

The biggest benefit I’ve seen for the alarm systems used with Vera for control and surveillance is that you can get motion sensors that work well. It appears that no one bothers to make decent zwave motion sensors. And you can add smoke alarms and see them through the alarm system via the envisalink. This doesn’t require that you use the alarm as an alarm. But it does add cost. One other benefit is that if you ever did want to use it as alarm (either monitored or self-monitored), you would have the hardware to do it.

9

Z-Wave class motion sensors suck!!! That’s why people are steering you towards an Alarm Panel connected to Vera. The alarm vendors have quality motion sensors … and when connected to Vera are available for your home automation system.

Also if you want automation to be reactive to things that you manually turn on/off you will also want to get Z-Wave devices that support instant status.

You also want switches that REQUIRE a neutral … so that they will handle LED and CFL lights.

For Details See:
http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z-Wave-OnOff-Wall-Switch-Comparison-W7.aspx

10

Okay so I would have a security panel and the motion detectors made for it, and the Vera would interface with the security panel to access to sensor status rather than interfacing with the motion sensors directly. Right?

If I never plan on using motion sensors and I give up on smoke detectors, is there any benefit of installing this extra hardware?

Richard; could you elaborate on what you mean by devices that have instant status? For example with a normal z wave light switch if I wanted it to (just for example) unlock the door when I turn the light on manually, are you saying it wouldn’t work unless I get special switches?

11

Motion detectors for alarms systems are pretty generic, so they’re inexpensive.

“Vera would interface with the security panel to access to sensor status” - Yes

Anything that has a dry contact closure as an output can be wired into the alarm panel: pressure mats, window switches, door switches, garage infrared beams, relay contacts, etc. Some other ideas: Set alarm on - turn off lights, audio systems, redirect house phone to mobile, etc. Turn alarm of - lights on - unlock door - welcome home message - send an alert. Walk around house at night; sensors turn on night lights. Keep in mind the alarm system inputs are also hardened to induced static electricity and RF making false triggers less likely. When you move house, you can just leave the alarm system in place, rather than some fancy home automation system that the new owners will have no hope understanding. ;–))

I’ll second that you’ll need access to neutral wires at light switches for LEDs and CFLs if you don’t want to wire in dummy loads to make them work.

12

If you don’t have instant status, you’ll have to wait for Vera to poll the node to notice that something changed. That’s usually longer than you want to wait. So, yes, if you want your light switch to do something more than turn on the light it is connected to directly, you should get instant status.

13

If you interact with a Z-Wave device directly, like turn on a light, If the device does not support instant status, Vera will not know about it for maybe a couple minutes, depending on the polling interval. So if you want Vera to automate things, base on your interaction with the device, the response will be verrrrrrrrry slow.

Many have ignored this and later decided they would like to initiate some other action as a result of manipulating a device, only to find out it does work as they thought it should.
NOTE: If you always interact with your Z-Wave devices from the Web Server, or some 3rd party remote application (Where Vera is actually manipulating the device directly), you will not need to worry about instant status … Since Vera knows the commands it has sent.

If you do not need motion sensors, you can skip the alarm. Security did not seem to be high on your priority list. But be warned, many people have pulled there hair out trying to make a single Z-Wave motion sensor work reliably. Many have settled for poor performance … which makes your whole automation system feel like a child’s toy.

14

I’ll add my 2 cents…

My Z-Wave door sensors would always end up in a bad state requiring a battery-pull/reset, or mess up with network heals. And they are expensive!

Usually a wireless alarm system will be cheaper in the long run (less expensive sensors, less batteries). Also, far better reliability, and there are wireless smoke detectors.

15

So the alarm system smoke detectors and motion sensors we are talking about which are more prevalent and far more reliable, are these wired ones or wireless? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I too am a newbie to this (tho not a newbie to techie stuff). I am thinking about going the DSC alarm panel route as well for several reasons I’ve heard here:

[ul][li]More reliable wireless motion detectors[/li]
[li]Cheaper door/window wireless contacts[/li]
[li]Wireless Smoke detectors[/li][/ul]

16

I would say both wired and wireless smoke detectors/contact sensors/motion sensors are more reliable than anything Z-Wave.

Wireless motion detectors (from DSC) will have a 6-second delay, so that door events can be processed first, and not lead to false triggers*. Wireless motion detectors will also usually send a “tripped” signal and go to sleep for a while, not sending other “tripped” signals" while sleeping, to save battery power.

  • reason for 6-second delay:
    If a motion sensor is tripped without an entry/exit zone being tripped first, that’s an immediate alarm (meaning someone might have gone in through a window). The 6-second delay allows the panel to have time to see/process the entry/exit zone being tripped, then the motion zone being tripped, and keep things lined up.
17

Thanks for the clarification. I have that combination of sheer excitement and sheer confusion I often get when I find my way into a community of people who are doing exactly what I want to do. I remember when I got my Tivo 10-15 years ago and wanted to crack it open to add hard drives and found the AVS forum.

I do appreciate the hand-holding as I make my way up this learning curve.