I’ve been learning this HA stuff for about 3 years now and have amassed a tangled web of some 148 devices (most are children). With all the experience that comes from running a big system like mine and I still cannot figure out associations. In spite of reading extensively I still have not been able to make the simplest association between my eco-link motion detector and my GE light controller right next to each other. There are so many variables and relationship I am frankly, just confused. Could somebody please walk me through the process STEP BY STEP to help me do this? Right now with the light set to go on via vera scene it can take from 1-5 seconds which just isn’t quick enough.
TIA
|-<:)
Following since I, too, tried and failed a couple of times to Associate devices, and nothing happened. I hope someone knows the answer!
Model Number of the Eco-Link motion detector please… link to the documentation for the model would be super helpful.
Note the most important thing to know about creating device associations…
Associations are 1 directional, you always set the association on the device that you want to control another device (the target device does not need to know anything about the association). The Group Number is just a Behavioural number… what kind of behaviour you want for the association, and that behaviour number is different for each device/manufacturer. For a motion sensor, Group 1 may be On on Motion, Off on no Motion, while Group 2 may be On only on Motion (with no off), but without the documentation you are just guessing what group number is the correct one (and their can be 99 of them most companies use the lower digits, but some use 99 as well). So Group has nothing to do with grouping the devices together. That is what “Set” is for with-in a group.
Finally in many cases a Z+ device is not going to be able to control an older Z (no plus) device unless the manufacturer did extra work to make it work or you can trick the Vera into including the Z+ device in non-secure mode. As what happens is that the Z+ device sends out an encrypted command that the older Z device can’t decode.
1 Like
I’ve been trying associations too… trying to associate my Zooz switch with zooz motion sensor no luck.
So assuming I know I want group 1, HOW do I set it? What do I set it to? Do I use the light switch’s vera ID?
I have the Ecolink-PIR motion detector (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FB1TBKS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
with the GE in wall light switch (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035YUOWC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
I see one association variable exposed on the motion detector, association group, I set it to 1.
How do I tell it to talk to the GE wall switch? I assume I can have the motion detector talk to both the Vera and the GE switch? Still confused.
Thanks for your help
OK, before I post the actual steps there is one additional thing you need to know. When you setup a Direct Association, the device that is the controller (in this case the motion sensor), is acting like a mini z-wave controller. It will continue sending all its info to Vera, but for certain events (like I detected motion), it will then send the On Light command to the Light that you set as a target. So the Controller (the motion sensor) has an internal table where it stores all this information. Vera can’t actually read this table from the device… but it can write to it. So sometimes when you have messed arround with the associations a lot, the Vera may have lost track of what state the device is actually in, so things will look right in Vera but not be right in the device. The only way to get out of this state is to exclude the device and re-include it, which ensures the association table gets cleared from the device.
Also, Vera sometimes will setup an association for devices back to the Vera (which helps with the speed of notifications getting back to the Vera in some cases). If you see an association Set to Device 2, leave that alone. Device 2 is the Vera z-wave device. Even if that association is in the Group you want to use, it is OK, remember Group is a behaviour number not a grouping of devices. Just leave that association a lone don’t try to remove or un-set it.
OK for your Ecolink-PIR detector,
Assuming Group 1 is the correct group (I haven’t checked the documentation so am not sure):
From the Vera Web UI (not the mobile app):
- Goto the Motion Detector (the controlling device) and click on the “Device Options” button
- In Device Options look at the Associations section at the bottom.
- The Group number (in this case 1) you need is not already listed, type “1” (no quotes, just the number) in the “Group ID:” field and press “Add Group” button.
- You should now see some additional button appear that may not have been there before that list, Delete, Set, and View for Group 1
- Press the “Set” Button
- This takes you a new page with all your devices listed. Find the Light you want the motion sensor to control and click the checkbox next to the device. (Remember if Zwave or _Scene controller under Unassigned devices is already checked, leave it, that is something Vera setup directly from the device back to the Vera also don’t check these if they are not checked!).
- After you have selected the devices you want to be controlled by the motion sensor, press the “Save” button at the bottom, them press the “Back to Zwave Options” button.
- Wait for the engine reload, then press the “Apply Changes” button.
If everything worked right, you should see the light switch device number in the “Set and View” list on the page (you usually have to leave back to the main device page and come back to see it is correct).
Your motion sensor should be be able to control your light switch.
2 Likes
Note, I couldn’t find any documentation about the Ecolink PIR sensors that state if they support associations or what groups are correct.
For their switches you need to use Group 2. So If Group 1 doesn’t work, Try Group 2 (remember you may need to remove and re-include the device if you have trouble removing the Group 1 and adding Group 2). Generally the Lifeline group is NOT the right group to use (Lifeline group is almost always an association that should be back to the Vera or not used).
1 Like
@Pabla You need to set the associate on the Zooz motion sensor (not the light).
You did not list what motion sensor you have. Assuming it in the indoor battery powered model.
You need to use Group 2
But for some reason, Zooz disabled the commands for Direct Association by default (why is beyond me!), but before you sent the association you also need to do this step:
On the same Device Options tab in the Device Configuration setction:
- Click “Add Configuration Changes” button, see that a new line is added above
- Type “14” in the parameters field (no quotes, just the number)
- Change Datasize to “1 byte hex”
- Change Desired Value to “1” (no quotes, just the number)
- Click Save Changes
Then proceed to setup the association on Group 2 per above.
You also need to wake up the device by pressing and holding the zwave button on the Zoozs for 5 seconds. If you miss the window for it to set the device, (Vera gives up if the device is asleep), go to the device, click on Advanced, go to the Command Tab, and press the “Configure node right now” button, then wake up the device again, by pressing/hold zwave button.
Every device is little different unfortunately.
@prophead if you went in and tried to set the association using the variables instead if using the UI in the Device Options tab that I listed, you likely corrupted your association table on the device. You will need to exclude and include back to Vera, before you attempt to setup the association using the Device Options UI. (While it is possible to set the association via the variables… the likelihood of getting it wrong or corrupting the table on the device goes way up, so don’t go that route).
2 Likes
I really appreciate your help. Man I tried to get this going for years, thank you so much.
|-<:)
1 Like
So, I got it working! It’s fast too. Now the downside; it doesn’t only work at nighttime like my scene did. I don’t suppose there’s any way to deal with this? I can’t believe I didn’t think of this. Thanks again.
1 Like
Judging by the advanced rocket science needed to get Associations to work, I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who couldn’t do it unaided. I’m almost kind of relieved I never succeeded!
No unfortunately most motion sensors don’t have any kind of conditional logic to the association the only one I know that does is the Fibaro which has some conditional logic for night and day based on the light level of the lux sensor but even that is likely not going to do what you want. It is basically all or nothing. I mostly use associations for grouping light switches with lamp modules etc, in which I always want the behavior.
1 Like
I would advocate strongly for allowing your controller to govern all of the device associations you want, for these and other reasons:
- Easy to alter setup as needed;
- Can preset light levels (if not well matched);
- Might not want Associations to operate 24/7
- Simple to include other devices at a later time;
- Zero risk of corrupting device config data!
- Libra
Associations are powerful but should only be used for times when you want the physical interactions with the devices to always be in sync.
The best advantage to using an association are that they are fast, don’t require the hub to be working or even up, and is one of the only ways to have two dimmers work together seemlessly (all the lights on both circuits dim and brighten together at the same time).
The main limitations, the physical interactions will always be joined (no conditional rules allows), however the hub generate actions still allow things to be split up.
For light switches you can have single directional and bi directional association (by having each switch point to the other).
My main use is to have the light switch for a room be associated with lamp modules in the room since the rooms are very dark, when you turn on the light switch it turns on all the floor lamps as well, always, which is the right behaviour for my application. My second application is that I put a couple of battery powered light switches in my home theater to allow folks access to the light control (since the light switch is outside the room), you use direct association to pair the battery switches to the main switch, and allows smooth dimming. Finally I put all my under cabinate lighting all associated together so they all come on/turn off together. My final use was that I added associations for some double tap actions in my kitchen because there is only one light switch for the dining area and often you want to adjust that light from other locations (dim up/down), and by doing this I didn’t have to add those extra battery powered switches, I could just use the existing numerous switches around the room (this double tap association is specific to only some switches like the Homeseer brand).
2 Likes
Hi there! thank you so much for posting this.
It really helped.