Hi, all.
I am pretty new to AltSteon, and I finally got it to work a couple of days ago.
They are working well except one situation, 3 way switching.
Let’s say my 3 way switching involves switch A and B, and A is just pass-through, and B is actual switch.
And A an B are cross-linked, and all switches are also linked to PLM.
When I turn on manually each switch, they work fine.(Every situation works well, A and B)
But Vera’s web page doesn’t tell the other switch’s status right, even though the actual switch is showing a right phase.
Moreover if I turn on Switch A through Vera Lite, Switch B doesn’t respond, so the light doesn’t turn on.
And when I turn on Switch B(actual switch), light turns on, but it doesn’t change the status of Switch A.
Could somebody experience this problem? or any idea?
Thanks.
This isn’t a problem, this is how Insteon is designed.
When a switch is activated physically, it will tell it’s Responders to change state.
When a switch is activated remotely, it will not. Otherwise, a single switch might cause a firestorm of activity.
You could create scenes to work around this, but sometimes mine would get into a loop that caused weird things.
Define a scene:
Actions → Turn on Switch A and Switch B
Triggers:
- Switch A turns on
- Switch B turns on
Thanks for the reply.
I am glad to hear this is the way Insteon is designed.
But the problem is when the switch is activated physically, the other switch responded(changes status), however the Vera software(w/ AltSteon) doesn’t recognize it changed even if the actual switch showing it changed, so weird.
[quote=“jiehooni, post:3, topic:178384”]Thanks for the reply.
I am glad to hear this is the way Insteon is designed.
But the problem is when the switch is activated physically, the other switch responded(changes status), however the Vera software(w/ AltSteon) doesn’t recognize it changed even if the actual switch showing it changed, so weird.[/quote]That’s because of the firestorm effect. In your case, you have 3 controllers
Controller: SwitchA → Responders: SwitchB and PLM
Controller: SwitchB → Responders: SwitchA and PLM
Controller: PLM → Responders: SwitchA and SwitchB
If Insteon allowed cascading commands, you would toggle A, which toggles B, which toggles A, etc…at the same time, A tells the PLM, which tells B and A, which both start repeating…where does it end? Only when updated via Altsteon directly (where the PLM is the controller) will Altsteon know immediately about the updates.
Eventually Altsteon will query each device and update the status. It should happen in 10 minutes or less.
Note: Insteon could have had some way to say “update and propagate X levels” but that would lead to a setup disaster/nightmare. Depending on how you arrange your scenes, you could have a single button press set of a crazy chain of events that turns on every light in the house.
I am not asking why it is not triggering from A to B, I am asking why the Vera software(w/ AltSteon) can’t update the status when physical switch is actually on.
When A is pressed, it triggers B(since they are linked), and I see B is on(LED on the left side all the way Up), but Vera doesn’t update.
Is it Insteon design problem?
I used to use QWHomeAutomation software, and it did update the software right way, so I guess there is a solution to it.
The reason I came to Vera is to have Zwave and Insteon on the same software.
Thanks.
Oh, I see. Altsteon/Vera simply doesn’t keep track/have knowledge of those links.
If you want that level of control, you would need a real controller, such as the ISY.
I thought I would pass it, but I am still not clear on this, sorry to keep bothering.
If Vera and AltSteon is not capable of reporting a status of a simple dimmer switch, how can it show on my Vera page, the switch status changes when physically on and off?
How does it differ from the switch got triggered from another pass-through switch?
Let me restate the situation here.
A: pass-through switch in 3 way.
B: actual load switch(dimmer) in 3 way.
Case1: Physically turning on B reports to Vera, it shows as ON.
Case2: Physically turning on A, A triggers B, it doesn’t show on Vera as ON even though actual B is ON, and indicating LED light is all the way up.
So by looking at it, it seems those cases resulted the same as B as ON, but you’re saying there is no way to trace the status of B only in case of 2? because clearly case 1 is working.
Thanks again.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
Simply put, switch state changes will not propagate more than one level.
In Vera/Altsteon:
Hit Switch A, and A tells B and PLM that Switch A turned on, no more actions occur.
Since B was switched remotely, it won’t send out a new signal that it was turned on.
Hit Switch B, and B tells A and PLM that Switch B turned on, no more actions occur.
Since A was switched remotely, it won’t send out a new signal that it was turned on.
This limitation will ALWAYS exist in an Insteon deployment…they way the ISY gets around this is by inherently “knowing” what the new state of any given switch should be.
In ISY:
Hit Switch A, and A tells B and PLM that Switch A turned on, no more actions occur.
Since B was switched remotely, it won’t send out a new signal that it was turned on, but ISY “knows” B should be on now, so it updates its internal state information.
Hit Switch B, and B tells A and PLM that Switch B turned on, no more actions occur.
Since A was switched remotely, it won’t send out a new signal that it was turned on, but ISY “knows” A should be on now, so it updates its internal state information.
[quote=“PurdueGuy, post:9, topic:178384”]In ISY:
Hit Switch A, and A tells B and PLM that Switch A turned on, no more actions occur.
Since B was switched remotely, it won’t send out a new signal that it was turned on, but ISY “knows” B should be on now, so it updates its internal state information.
Hit Switch B, and B tells A and PLM that Switch B turned on, no more actions occur.
Since A was switched remotely, it won’t send out a new signal that it was turned on, but ISY “knows” A should be on now, so it updates its internal state information.[/quote]
Can we duplicate that logic with the Vera? If we know B is a companion switch then we can periodically check and make sure it matches the load level of A.
[quote=“joey52685, post:10, topic:178384”]Can we duplicate that logic with the Vera? If we know B is a companion switch then we can periodically check and make sure it matches the load level of A.[/quote]Doubtful, at least from my level. Currently the Altsteon daemon has no concept of the links records and what they mean. It can read them, but they aren’t really parsed/interpreted.
Perhaps another enterprising individual might want to do that, but spending the couple/few hundred dollars on an ISY to handle all that might be money well spent…UD takes care of all the details, and can be a slate to Vera.
[quote=“PurdueGuy, post:11, topic:178384”][quote=“joey52685, post:10, topic:178384”]Can we duplicate that logic with the Vera? If we know B is a companion switch then we can periodically check and make sure it matches the load level of A.[/quote]Doubtful, at least from my level. Currently the Altsteon daemon has no concept of the links records and what they mean. It can read them, but they aren’t really parsed/interpreted.
Perhaps another enterprising individual might want to do that, but spending the couple/few hundred dollars on an ISY to handle all that might be money well spent…UD takes care of all the details, and can be a slate to Vera.[/quote]
Well everyone is pushing the ISY and I’ve pretty much switched entirely to Insteon other than my door lock. I may have to consider buying one.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
I really wanted A Controller which does both ZWave and Insteon well, but I guess it is hard to achieve.
Maybe I should go back to separate way, Vera(or Aeon Stick with InControl) only for ZWave, and QWHomeAutomation for Insteon.
Thanks again.
While I don’t think everyone is pushing ISY, but I did start a thread to show how ISY is a nice controller for Insteon. Then garrettwp offered up the plugin that he wrote to bridge the two.
While I can’t speak for the author fba directly, Altsteon was written as a plugin to allow better control of Insteon devices than Vera allows, without needing a separate controller. Vera’s implementation is poor and outdated. Altsteon brings it back up to speed.