I believe that this can work as a poor mans UPS, providing power to Vera during a mains power outage as well as giving somewhat protection for moderat size electric transients.
If feeding Vera the extra 0,6V is a concern … Well the battery itself is rated to have an output at 12,6-10,8VDC so I don’t see the problem.
Absolutely positively without a doubt NOT true! I can’t stress that enough. Li-Ion batteries CANNOT be float charged or constantly charged. You’ll kill them. Or worse.
Whenever reading a ‘fact’ on the Internet, you need to first understand the context of the statement, and then validate the statement (2nd opinion).
In this case, the posting is referring to cell phone batteries. Cell phones and laptops can in fact be plugged in on a continuous basis without harming their batteries. Why?? Because the cell phone or laptop itself regulates the power being provided to the batteries, and SHUTS IT OFF when they are fully charged. They also do cool things such as periodically using the batteries a bit, then charging them back up, which prolongs their life.
So no, don’t even consider connecting a Li-Ion battery inline with a power supply as a UPS solution. You could theoretically do this with a Lead Acid battery however, but you need to pay attention to the voltage being supplied versus the ‘float’ voltage of the battery.
Thanks for the feedback. Well, I’m not going to beat up my Li-Ion battery pack with a sledge hammer or short curcuit it.
I must assume that the battery pack provided with Vera 3 includes a charging regulator which also would prevent too high currents or excessive heat as well as protecting for over charging. Otherwise I believe it wouldn’t achieve an C E approval. People tend to forget things and if the battery pack is continiously connected to the charger intentionally or unintentionally, normally it shouldn’t catch fire or explode. That would be a dangerous product indeed.
Since my current Vera 3 seems to beyond repair (for other reasons) I have an extra battery pack and a charger as well as an extra PS. If the batteries in the battery pack wears out it’s not a big deal for me so I guess I might as weel try it out.
By the way, I read on this forum that Vera can be damaged by an uncontrolled power down (At least with older firmwares). To properly power down Your Vera 3 the help button should be pressed for some time and then a shutdown should occur. Before my Vera underwent the complete and permanent cessation of all vital functions, I wasn’t aware of that.
[quote=“farang, post:4, topic:184537”]I read on this forum that Vera can be damaged by an uncontrolled power down (At least with older firmwares). To properly power down Your Vera 3 the help button should be pressed for some time and then a shutdown should occur.[/quote]Vera Lite and Vera Edge do not have a help button, or any way to power down besides pulling the plug. If what you read was ever true, it is not the case now.
I think your “UPS” idea is folly, but see for yourself.
Ok. Believe me, I completely understand the need for battery backup on your Vera. Mine is protected by a whole house UPS system, but that’s another story…
Here is what you need to give your Vera backup power without busting your budget…
Get yourself one of those. It plugs directly into the wall, and the output is a standard 12v DC connection. Plug that into Vera, and all is well. I have used these before on wireless routers and access points, and other 12v items periodically. They work like a charm, and are completely turnkey. It contains a 12v LEAD ACID battery, and will serve you quite well.
A whole house UPS? How much space does that puppy take up?
I have a 1200VA UPS supplying my cable modem, switch and Vera to ensure they stay up for about an hour in case power fails.
My main server/router/gateway is on it’s own identical UPS to ensur eit stays up at least 30 minutes.
Basically everything in the house that electronic (including HTS etc) is on UPS for the simple reason our local electrical company generates frequent brownouts. I’m not expecting those to last more than a few minutes. Just long enough to keep the power stable in case of multiple brown outs.
I learned my lesson a while back when it when Thunk, Thunk, Thunk and the next thing I know the PSU on my then almost new $1400 37" LCD died. Took about a month but I got it replaced under warranty. I rather sacrifice a $60 UPS next time.
[quote=“BOFH, post:7, topic:184537”]A whole house UPS? How much space does that puppy take up? ;)[/quote]They don’t take up as much as you might think. This Liebert 15kVA would do a whole house for several minutes and a 42U tall 90kVA unit could probably carry air conditioning and all for 30 minutes or more. I’ve never used one for residential. I’ve only used them for commercial, to bridge the gap between outage and when the generator spins up.
I remember those. We had one of the Liebert’s at my last job for a development office to ensure nothing was lost during brownouts. The Liebert NB20S07126000 20KVA unit is a mere $7900.-
and a few years later, when the batteries need replacing. KaChing!!!
I am surprised that the Vera didn’t come with a built in rechargeable battery, not just for backup power but for when you want to pair with z-wave devices. Maybe the next device after vera edge will include this feature. I know it comes with the external battery, but recently I had to re-build my z-wave network and it took me 25 minutes to figure out which drawer the battery sank to the bottom. I haven’t had to use it in over a year.
With all of that said I still need battery backup for my SecurityDVR and Raspberry Pi. All three of these devices are pretty low in power consumption and will run off the same UPS for quite a long time. I haven’t actually tested the total running time, but the LCD screen on it claims I am at 6% load capacity and can run for 70 minutes.
Why is it important for the vera to be always on , with a power-out?
I do understand when there is frequently a small power drop , but when it happends occasionally , when for example the powerline is cut , what would be an advantage to have the vera on an UPS?
Most of my devices are run from 240V and are out anyway , the few battery powered devices well , not important.
In 4 years since I have 2 vera’s I had 3 power cuts , but everytime vera came on without an issue by itself.
I do understand it is better for an electronic device to be always on instead of “switching it off”, but 3x in 4 years?
Anyone who can pusuade me to have a UPS for my vera’s as well?
The idea of a build in battery for inclusion purposes is great offcourse
The real problem with Vera had to do with time.
Vera (At least UI5 … have not checked UI7) only set the time during the boot cycle. If the network was not available at
the time … your Vera would not know what time it was until it was rebooted with a network connection.
If during a power outage your Network does not come up as fast as your Vera … Vera would not have the right time until Vera was rebooted (NOT Restarted).
So keeping Vera Running is mostly to keep the correct time …
You can turn on NTP on Vera … but that uses memory and on a Vera Lite every byte counts!
[quote=“Cor, post:13, topic:184537”]Why is it important for the vera to be always on , with a power-out?
I do understand when there is frequently a small power drop , but when it happends occasionally , when for example the powerline is cut , what would be an advantage to have the vera on an UPS?
Most of my devices are run from 240V and are out anyway , the few battery powered devices well , not important.[/quote]Some people use Vera for notification purposes from their alarm systems. Others mistaken rely on Vera as an alarm. There are also some that use Vera to notify them that there is an outage. Far too many people think they need a battery backup, failing to remember that their switches will not work and, more importantly, their Z-Wave mesh network will be “damaged” or completely “broken” while the power is out.
In 4 years since I have 2 vera's I had 3 power cuts , but everytime vera came on without an issue by itself.
I do understand it is better for an electronic device to be always on instead of "switching it off", but 3x in 4 years.
A sudden loss of electricity has the potential to leave your Vera in an inoperable state. A power cut is not always “clean”. There may be short period of time with transients and lower voltage. Solid-state drives can suffer catastrophic damage from sudden power cuts.
I say this because my Vera died a few days ago. I had a power outage after which it managed to restart. When I saved some changes I made in a PLEG it just died. It may of course be a coinsidence and may not have something to do with the recent power outage.
I know that some systems autoupdate the firmware. I’m quite sure that a power outage while auto updating can render your Vera useless. I do believe that a power outage while Vera is saving data can result in data corruption and probably all kind of unexplainable strange errors as a result.
I completely agree with the need to keep Vera powered on without unexpected power failures. My Vera 3 runs the entire house. If it goes down, it would cause a lot of problems and annoyance.
I don’t recall if this still happens or not, but Vera historically did not have a real time clock. If powered down, Vera needed to access the internet to acquire the current date and time. In the case of a genuine power failure, the Internet might not be accessible, and in that case, Vera won’t function properly until the current date/time are established.
When I said that I have a “whole house” UPS, that’s a bit misleading. It wouldn’t make sense to have things like the Microwave, oven, washer/dryer, air conditioner, etc. on a battery backup system. But aside from the high load non essential items, yes, my whole house is on a backup system that I installed.
I installed an APC Symmetra UPS system, that is an ‘online’ UPS. Basically, that means that the house’s loads are always powered by the UPS’s system. In the case of a power fluctuation or failure, there is no ‘transfer’ to the backup, because the backup is always on. The lights don’t even flicker. The unit was designed to run an IT datacenter. Plenty of power for a decent sized house. It’s a pretty cool setup, but definitely overkill for almost all consumers out there.
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