Considering the benefits being suggested around the new 5th gen Z-wave chip and associated network, it suggests there would be benefits in keeping the old and new version separate (isolated from each other).
That way there are no bottle necks with the gen 5s having to share/traverse the same network as as the older ones etc.
To deal with this I’m planning to keep my Vera 3 and run it in parallel with the Vera Plus arrives (and I’ll just move my gen 5 devices over, which is currently my lighting)
I’m also assuming that bridging is/will be supported, but I’m curious what others plan to do or have done considering the new capability in a pure z-wave plus network ??
I’ll most likely do what I am doing currently with my Ui5 and Ui7 vera 3’s. Interconnect them using http calls to both run scenes or operate devices from one on the other. Although I may end up going fully UI7 with a VeraPlus / VeraEdge combo and leaving the Vera 3 as QA/Test machines. I don’t need to bridge them as for example Imperihome is fully able to connect to multiple vera’s and present all devices as coming from one controller.
While every circumstance is different, I think the perceived benefits of Gen5 are overblown, at least for the end user. Claims of increased range - what most people seem to latch onto - creates a perception not unlike those caused by claims that (old) Z-Wave devices can communicate from over 100 feet away. It’s a vague possibility, but unlikely in reality.
Regardless, don’t forget that your networks are two completely separate meshes. One mesh will not route for the other’s devices. So, keeping them separate could unnecessarily create communication problems due to a weak mesh.
Yep snd separate meshes is the goal, certain apps can allow me to control more than one Vera too or I could just make luup (http) requests to the other unit when I want it to do something.
For me it’s not the range improvements (while good to see) it’s the increased bandwidth requirements of gen 5 that interests/concerns me (potential OTA updates at some point - which scares me to be honest :)) all of which suggests the new nodes and controllers will try to send more and more content over the mesh, compared to the older ones.
I vividly recall some nodes in the past not being able to transfer everything they needed to within the time the connection with the controller was open e.g 3in1 sensors are a good example as they would need to send far more than a single sensor would etc. And you can already see more information being lined up to be shared via gen 5s (6in1 sensors !)
It’s all theory at the moment until the new unit arrives - hence I’m curious of peoples thoughts/plans
I’ll likely keep ui5 on the Vers 3 and live the ui7 dream on the VeraPlus.
[quote=“parkerc, post:4, topic:191037”]For me it’s not the range improvements (while good to see) it’s the increased bandwidth requirements of gen 5 that interests/concerns me (potential OTA updates at some point…[/quote] This is precisely what I was saying about perceptions and reality. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that you’ve ever faced a bandwidth issue? I’ve never seen it and since the controllers(certainly Vera) send commands asynchronously, I don’t see how you could ever have a bandwidth issue, without new applications riding on the Z-Wave protocol like maybe OTA updates.
I vividly recall some nodes in the past not being able to transfer everything they needed to within the time the connection with the controller was open e.g 3in1 sensors are a good example as they would need to send far more than a single sensor would etc.
This is an issue with the wakeup interval and duration of battery operated devices. It has nothing at all to do with bandwidth.
As for OTA updates… These are things that are going to be extremely rare and will likely never be originated by Vera. As I said previously the new features of Gen5 aren’t really beneficial to end users, they are beneficial to installers and MSPs. When an installer needs to update a new installation of 10 or more Aeon sensors, the bandwidth of legacy Z-Wave could mean that takes several minutes or hours while the newer higher bandwidth will allow them to move to the next job sooner. Also, they won’t do the update with Vera, they’ll use an Aeon Z-Wave stick and a special update application.
MSPs might also benefit from the higher bandwidth when using the the Sigma IMA tool for network management and troubleshooting. But, again, these are things the end user will never use and even if they did, it would be so infrequent that the longer time due to slower bandwidth just wouldn’t be an issue.
The only thing that that I can see increased bandwidth might benefit the end user is possibly the network heal. I think, though I’m not sure, that more bandwidth might speed up a network heal. But most Vera end users won’t see network heals anyway, as they happen at 2:00am. Also, the longest part of a network heal is waiting for battery operated devices to wake up.
I’m not trying to discourage you from doing what you think is best. I simply saying that the benefits of Z-Wave Plus(Gen5) are almost entirely for commercial installers and MSPs who are dealing with lots of large Z-Wave networks. Sigma has successfully marketed the benefits as also a benefit to consumers, but it is not really a noticeable improvement for the consumer, despite the manufactured perceptions.
Thanks z-waver, and like you say it’s very much a personal choice.
My interpretation/understanding is that Gen 5 devices will “prefer” routing via other Gen 5 devices where possible, plus a mix of the two is complicated by a capability that certain Gen 5 devices “Include with security” by default if they are capable of secure communications.
Which means some will communicate using encryption - plus I understand Gen 5 devices have several different RF channels too, and it’s that that lets them use more bandwidth. Which means it’ll be interesting how Associations work between Gen 5 and non Gen 5.
Bottom line is I agree all this is very much installer and MSP territory , but this forum has never been about accepting a black box set up - we like to get under the hood - hence it’s intriguing to understand the nuances and keep trying to reach that optimal set up .
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- hence it’s intriguing to understand the nuances and keep trying to reach that optimal set up .