With the release of the VeraPlus, does anyone know what Zigbee devices will be compatible? I’m curious if Lightify / hue bulbs will be able to be controlled directly, or if we’ll have to develop plugins for these devices.
I’m very interested in this too.
There are a few places I would like to add connected bulbs instead of replacing the switches.
If I know specific models the controller will support directly I’ll buy those so I don’t need a middle-man hub!
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My question is ‘what Zigbee devices are available and why should I buy them rather than z-wave’
Having looked on the web I can see zigbee bulbs and various controllers but not much else. Are there devices available that are better than z-wave equivalent or perhaps don’t have equivalents. Perhaps zigbee devices are cheaper than z-wave.
Will the built in zigbee in the new vera plus help me or not?
[quote=“Slartibartfast, post:3, topic:190358”]My question is ‘what Zigbee devices are available and why should I buy them rather than z-wave’
Having looked on the web I can see zigbee bulbs and various controllers but not much else. Are there devices available that are better than z-wave equivalent or perhaps don’t have equivalents. Perhaps zigbee devices are cheaper than z-wave.
Will the built in zigbee in the new vera plus help me or not?[/quote]
Not sure where your located, but LOWES local hardware store carries 15.00 door and window sensors.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_388558-41166-DWS901_0__?productId=3735305
There was also this in store last time I was there.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_752888-52997-NCZ-3010-3_0__?productId=999912577
http://nycesensors.com/products/ncz3010/
They also had push buttons slimier to a door bell and a few other items I haven’t see in Z-wave.
To me altho I haven’t used any, Zigbee seems to be cheaper and smaller for the most part. Depending on which devices actually end up working with the VERA Plus it would be a nice option to have the larger selection. I know when shopping at Lowes I have to check the back of the bock to see if its a z-wave or zigbee product.
I don’t think anyone knows just yet, sounds like full specs on that aren’t available. However, what I will say is Zigbee has a lot of sensors not found in Zwave devices such as a pressure sensor for something like a pool filter. I always wanted the ability to get the pressure gauge readout to know if it drops or runs high. For me it indicates a leak or time to clean it. I know there are cheaper methods like looking myself (HA = lazy :)). But Zigbee offers a world of sensors and devices we might normally see in more commercial or medical use however I’m sure there’s things this community would utilize.
Or just simple IO that monitors for a discrete 12-24 vDC signal. The only z-wave things I have found handle 1-2 input (Fortress MIMOLIte/MIMO2 and Fibaro Universal Binary Sensor)… whereas there are a number of zigbee choices with 8-16 digital inputs available.
I’m hoping GetVera decided to support the ZHA (Zigbee Home Automation) standard and hopefully also the ZLL (Zigbee Light Link) standard. (Even though most of the LL is within HA. Why LL you ask? Well, that’s what Hue, GE Link and Cree bulbs use.
Technical reference:
Home Automation: http://zigbee.org/non-menu-pages/zigbee-home-automation-download/
Light Link: http://zigbee.org/non-menu-pages/zigbee-light-link-download/
Short Summary of differences
Zigbee Light Link device vs Zigbee Home Automation device
*** Profile ID:
- ZLL - 0xC05E, used for touchlink commissioning commands. All other ZCL commands are sent using HA profile.
- HA - 0x0104
*** Commissioning method: - ZLL - Touchlink commissioning: an inter-Pan method. The role is to form a network or to add new nodes to an existing network, by finding devices in the neighbourhood according to the received signal strength;
- HA - EZ mode commissioning: a network steering and commissioned method focused on the network and device installer. Requires two steps which can also be combined: network steering (forming/joining to the proper network) + finding and binding (discovering and creating source bindings between a specific lists of clusters);
*** Security - ZLL - the architecture is based on encryption/decryption of the network key with a fixed secret key (ZLL master key) or ZLL pre-installed link key(classical commissioning). The network key is generated randomly by the initiator when it starts the network.
ZLL master key and ZLL pre-installed link key are a secret distributed only to certified manufacturers that signed a safekeeping contract.
*** Interoperability: - A ZLL device could be added to a trust centre protected network (HA network) using the touchling commands: Device Discovery followed by Reset to Factory New Request. On receipt of the Reset to Factory new Request, the ZLL device shall leave the network and depending on the device implementation could start a classical commissioning procedure or wait for user interaction.
- HA devices could be added to a ZLL network using classical commissioning, only if these devices know the ZLL pre-installed link key.
ZLL support if what I’m hoping for. I just had to return some promising Osram Lightify lamps because they would not connect to hue. Apparently Philips has decided to disable touchlink and attempt to lock third party bulbs out of their system.
[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:4, topic:190358”]Not sure where your located, but LOWES local hardware store carries 15.00 door and window sensors.
[url=http://www.lowes.com/pd_388558-41166-DWS901_0__?productId=3735305]http://www.lowes.com/pd_388558-41166-DWS901_0__?productId=3735305[/url]
There was also this in store last time I was there.
[url=http://www.lowes.com/pd_752888-52997-NCZ-3010-3_0__?productId=999912577]http://www.lowes.com/pd_752888-52997-NCZ-3010-3_0__?productId=999912577[/url]
[url=http://nycesensors.com/products/ncz3010/]http://nycesensors.com/products/ncz3010/[/url][/quote]
You guys in the USA seem to have a lot more choices than over here in GB. Looking into it a little more though, it looks as though we may have a common 2.4 GHz standard and we will be able to use those too. I can only hope.
I suppose it’s too much to hope that the implemented standard would be Zigbee 3.0.
Sorry, have to say this, but the fact they announce a product, the main selling point is a new capability, are now selling it to you, but don’t even tell you what standards the capability conforms to, is typical Vera.
@TC1 - My suspicion/expectation is that, while the Plus will contain a Zigbee radio, it will not have any direct Zigbee device support. I expect that support to come at a later date/firmware release or through plugins.
None the less, I’m still glad to see the radio included.
Before slagging them off for not telling you all the standards, don’t forget that it is not officially released yet. They have made it available at a discount pre-release for anyone willing to take the jump semi blind but they are not forcing you to buy now. If you want the full spec, wait for the official release and then buy if you like it. Don’t buy if you don’t.
I’m not particularly pleased to see Zigbee support, here in the UK it all seems to be X10 (oldy worldy use) or ZWave. LightwaveRF can also be purchased in Europe:
[url=http://www.vesternet.com/lightwaverf]http://www.vesternet.com/lightwaverf[/url]
But no support from Vera for it.
For me that would have made the VeraPlus worth buying but as it stands, for other than the USA, Vera seem to have limited their market. Why would I spend the extra to get a VeraPlus when I can get a VeraEdge cheaper (I already have a VeraEdge BTW 
).
Also, why would anyone offer a pre-release that is cheaper without releasing the device specs, especially about someting so important as the actual standards it conforms to?
All-in-all, considering both these points, what kind of marketing strategy do they have?
[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:4, topic:190358”][quote=“Slartibartfast, post:3, topic:190358”]My question is ‘what Zigbee devices are available and why should I buy them rather than z-wave’
Having looked on the web I can see zigbee bulbs and various controllers but not much else. Are there devices available that are better than z-wave equivalent or perhaps don’t have equivalents. Perhaps zigbee devices are cheaper than z-wave.
Will the built in zigbee in the new vera plus help me or not?[/quote]
Not sure where your located, but LOWES local hardware store carries 15.00 door and window sensors.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_388558-41166-DWS901_0__?productId=3735305
There was also this in store last time I was there.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_752888-52997-NCZ-3010-3_0__?productId=999912577
http://nycesensors.com/products/ncz3010/
They also had push buttons slimier to a door bell and a few other items I haven’t see in Z-wave.
To me altho I haven’t used any, Zigbee seems to be cheaper and smaller for the most part. Depending on which devices actually end up working with the VERA Plus it would be a nice option to have the larger selection. I know when shopping at Lowes I have to check the back of the bock to see if its a z-wave or zigbee product.[/quote]
I don’t know about the hinge linked above but those are the old Lowes contact sensors that as far I know will not work with anything but the lowes hub.
Lowes did release new sensors ( http://www.lowes.com/pd_690400-41277-3320-L___?productId=999925302&pl=1&Ntt=iris ) ( http://www.lowes.com/pd_690402-41277-3326-L___?productId=999925310&pl=1&Ntt=iris ) that conform to the Zigbee HA 1.2
I got a smartthings hub just for zigbee and tried the those sensors and they did not work but the new ones work great.
I will also be waiting to see how the vera plus works out and if it has good zigbee support I will get it.
I currently have a vera lite and a edge and like many others have mentioned the zigbee sensors are cheaper and have ones available that zwave does not.
Philips has just released a new update that restores 3rd party bulb compatibility. After installing said update on the hub, it saw my GE-Link bulbs. I’m not familiar with the Osram bulbs but if they are ZLL they should work with that latest update.
Before slagging them off for not telling you all the standards, don’t forget that it is not officially released yet.[/quote]
Umm, you’re wrong. They are taking pre-orders with a guaranteed ship date. That must mean product is in the pipeline and set in stone for now.
[quote=“Z-Waver, post:12, topic:190358”]@TC1 - My suspicion/expectation is that, while the Plus will contain a Zigbee radio, it will not have any direct Zigbee device support. I expect that support to come at a later date/firmware release or through plugins.
None the less, I’m still glad to see the radio included.[/quote]
The best case scenario is that the protocol can be altered via the software stack.
Which leads me to a few other theories…
If they added the Zigbee support via the internal usb bus in the unit, in theory, one could add a Zigbee external radio in the USB port on a VeraEdge, the software should be able to find it.
If not… then that means the software development for the firmware gets more complicated? Will there be one firmware release that is regression tested against all prior models that will auto-detect which model it’s running on? I’m hoping for the folks that already invested in a VE that they too will be able to add ZB support via a USB stick.
Before slagging them off for not telling you all the standards, don’t forget that it is not officially released yet.[/quote]
Umm, you’re wrong. They are taking pre-orders with a guaranteed ship date. That must mean product is in the pipeline and set in stone for now.[/quote]
I didn’t mean that they had not finished the design, merely that they had not formally released it yet. All I’m saying is let them formally announce everything and announce the specs then we will all know.
It will support Zigbee HA 1.2
Brian - ZigBee Home Automation 1.2 at launch. Updates to follow, as there is a lot going on in the ZigBee Alliance at present. Say tuned.Cheers,
Colin Burke McClure ▾ Sr. Director of Product Development
Vera Control, Ltd. ▾ Smarter Home Control
www.getvera.com ▾ colin@getvera.com ▾ +1 (866) 966-2272