How about the notion that the DSC delays are (also) related to guarantee that a trip from a (wireless) door/contact sensor defined as Delay zone, will be received before a trip from a (wireless) motion sensor defined as Interior zone?
OTI, that will be some fancy PLEG work needed to handle conditions in a specific order.
May I ask why the delay is helpful? Is it so you can enter the home and have a delay before an alarm?
Sorry I’m such a Newbie at alarm logic. I’ve just started reading some more generic info here: http://www.diyalarms.net/system_design.html
In theory, an Alarm system can be built as long as you have:
a) Reliable sensor input - devices that work all of the time
b) A reliable/stable programming platform - one that doesn’t regularly reboot/restart
c) External notification mechanisms (a Bell)
d) Mechanisms to quickly/consistently arm/disarm it that an average punter can use, esp when the Bell goes off 
e) Mechanisms to notify you when issues were occurring (missing/uncontactable nodes, low batteries, etc)
f) Time/energy to program/debug the pieces coming together
When I first deployed Vera, I used HSM-100 and HomePOS ZIR000 and quickly determined they had the following issues:
a) Battery burn rate
b) Unreliable/Inconsistent event delivery - it worked some of the time
c) General Vera instability
The HomePOS device was particularly bad. The HSM-100 wasn’t very good either and back then I had a good size, mostly stable, Z-Wave network where I tried it in multiple locations (with all the normal repair work)
In practice, it came down to having poor reliability of both the components and the overall system. There were also a bunch of ease of use issues (for WAF acceptance, or for resale), esp since I try to add things to the house that would continue to work for the next owner.
So yes, in theory, you can build one… it’s only software afterall
Then I changed model to instead use COTS components, each working “independently”, and then tying them into Vera (for influence & feedback, not control). I wrote the Paradox Alarm plugin as a direct result of those early experiences… and then the DSC Alarm plugin (for @strangely, initially, but that’s another story).
The difference in experience between these two models (Z-Wave vs COTS Alarm System), when deployed at scale, is night-and-day.
The most consistent, reliable, components in my HA system are the ones implemented as Plugins to [largely] autonomous devices. I’ve spent far less time getting these to work initially, and debugging over-time reliability issues in these vs my Z-Wave network.
…something I’m reminded of even this morning, as one of my critical Z-Wave nodes just failed.
BTW: In 5yrs, I’ve had 2 failed [wired] Alarm sensors. These both triggered the alarm to go off (internal and external bells) and, as Murphy would have it, they both occurred in the early hours (~2-5am). Quickly disarming the system via the keypad fixed the issue within seconds of it going off. I cannot imagine what it would be like it had I’d had to interact/rely upon doing that with Vera involved.
Total component cost to fix the failing sensors: $4
I’ve also never had to debug the Alarm Panel, but I’ve spent 100’s of hours debugging Vera and it’s overall stability. Unfortunately, the upfront costs are higher, but just like the other components in my system I’ve expanded into the capabilities far more than I’d ever expected I would, so it’s paid off in the long run.
How about the notion that the DSC delays are (also) related to guarantee that a trip from a (wireless) door/contact sensor defined as Delay zone, will be received before a trip from a (wireless) motion sensor defined as Interior zone?[/quote]
@oTi,
I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Are you saying the 6s is introduced at the DSC Panel based upon the Zone setup?
In my case, the {Wired,Wireless} sensor events are sent back instantly to the Panel, no matter how that Zone is configured. It’s the Panel’s responsibility to work out what to do with that, and how to react. It can do this because it has all the extra state that a [largely] dumb sensor cannot have (what type of Zone, Panel Arming state, or transitional arming state (etc))
a) Reliable sensor input - devices that work all of the time
I will say once I split my Z-Wave network on to two Vera units, every sensor has worked without fail (only for a month though).
b) A reliable/stable programming platform - one that doesn’t regularly reboot/restart
It reboots once a night (which can be disabled). I also my Z-Wave only Vera (no plugins) has all my security sensors. While my primary Vera is controlling the alarm logic, all the sensors are stable on the bridged Z-Wave unit. Doesn’t fix the problem, but does stabilize it to a degree.
c) External notification mechanisms (a Bell)
Z-Wave siren/strobe
d) Mechanisms to quickly/consistently arm/disarm it that an average punter can use, esp when the Bell goes off
Planning on using Door Lock keypads and MiniFob keychain remotes.
e) Mechanisms to notify you when issues were occurring (missing/uncontactable nodes, low batteries, etc)
Ummm, I think we have a problem here. 
f) Time/energy to program/debug the pieces coming together
I think I have the logic formed in this thread, minus the E. Also I need a way to disarm open windows when arming.
Well, already getting some tamper issues with the Aeon sensors:
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/board,28.0.html
Will work through the issues and report back.
It’s Vera as an alarm or bust.
[quote=“guessed, post:24, topic:179001”]@oTi,
I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Are you saying the 6s is introduced at the DSC Panel based upon the Zone setup?[/quote]The delay is deliberate and its imposed by the Sensor. Sadly not configurable either 
Its actually quoted in some of DSCs PDFs as a design decision (to allow door sensors to trip first), which I think is odd given that the wired ones don’t have this.
One way to possibly get around this is to use a wireless to wireless translator. You could then use a brand such as Honeywell PIRs that maybe don’t have the delay.
Translator:
http://resolutionproducts.com/Websites/resolutionproducts/images/RE324HD_HNW-to-DSC_Wireless_Translator.pdf
I might try this at some point if I can the stuff cheap enough on eBay to be bothered
[quote=“guessed, post:24, topic:179001”]@oTi,
I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Are you saying the 6s is introduced at the DSC Panel based upon the Zone setup?[/quote]
Nope, conversely. It appears that DSC have chosen to not have it the way you describe, and I would intuitively expect, for interior zones. I’ve seen floated elsewhere, and in DSC documentation as @strangely stated, that the 6 second delay is implemented sensor-side, so delay zones trip before interior zones.
I was wondering if you guys had discounted that explanation (and were presenting others), as it seems a bit odd, as @strangely noted as well. It would imply that the wired sensors have a delay as well (or a different implementation panel-side), but certainly a lot shorter. Someone mentioned 1.5-2 second on the DSC thread. Perhaps they bumped it up to 6 for the wireless sensors. Which would imply that a wireless door/sensor and a wired motion sensor covering the same door have the potential for being tricky?
(Screenshot from: http://cms.dsc.com/download.php?t=1&id=10245)
[quote=“AgileHumor, post:25, topic:179001”]e) Mechanisms to notify you when issues were occurring (missing/uncontactable nodes, low batteries, etc)
Ummm, I think we have a problem here.
[…]
I think I have the logic formed in this thread, minus the E. Also I need a way to disarm open windows when arming.[/quote]
Part of e: tamper detection. (Z-Wave sensors may have it, but not handled in Vera? (Came up again in a recent topic elsewhere.))
So I’ve ordered this unit to detect Z-Wave jamming (signal stregnth over a normal amount) for $160 bucks on Amazon.
http://www.kjbsecurity.com/products/detail/personal-rf-detector/262/
It says 1ghz, but I’m hoping it’s possible to get to the 933mhz frequency being an analog device.
The goal would be to set it near the siren, and create a relay based siren when it detects a level of RF above the adjustable threshold.
Thoughts?
Cool, let us know if you can ‘see’ your waves. Also, let me know if you find a “Man with a Brick” sensor!
[quote=“AgileHumor, post:13, topic:179001”]This is what I’ve come up with and it appears to be working well.
Zone Combination Switches (Status View):
- Armed - Home Perimeter - Contains sensors set to “Armed”, on when all “Armed”
- Armed - Outside Motion - Contains sensors set to “Armed”, on when all “Armed”
- Armed - Doors and Windows Closed - Contains contact sensors set to “Not Tripped”, on when all “Not Tripped”
- Armed - Doors Locked - Contains door locks set to “Locked”, on when all “Locked”
‘snip’
I’ve attached my “alarm status panel” view in Vera
Will update.[/quote]
thanks for your alarm status panel view. What plugin are you using to generate these?
TIA
Hamish
He is using the CombinationSwitch created by Futzle.
- Garrett
AgileHumor
Any progress on your system?
Making progress. About half way there alarm and had to take a break. I have the alerts pretty well tested using Star Trek “red alert” files played on the PC vs a Siren. It took some time to move from mControl, Scenes, and Wav files integration with the whole home audio/htpc…to a more refined 100% PLEG based. That’s complete including star trek “swoosh” door sounds when my sliding glass doors open.
Key focus was error control at Vera startup:
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,23688.msg161762.html#msg161762
Also, when I arm the outside motion or home perimeter with my goodnight scene, it uses TTS to let me know if any doors are tripped.
In process of converting all my lighting scenes to PLEG (outdoor and indoor motion)…that is keeping me pretty busy.
After the lighting scenes to PLEG conversion, I plan to focus on a state based alarm siren that will fire after 30 seconds of a tripped condition. It will be able be able to be disarmed via a MiniFob or voice activation. Another key area is delay alarm on exit while informing of my of error states in arming (aka already tripped conditions).
PS - Unknowns are how to effectively manage batteries and sensors that don’t check in. Also, I’ve found the “tampered” condition on Aeon Door Sensors don’t do anything in Vera. Tampered does not = tripped.
PSS - Current Perimeter PLEG alarm attached (outdoor motion alerts on other bridged Vera):
Battery problem solved
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,23688.msg162998.html#msg162998
Has anyone tried this plugin?
Simple Alarm Plugin
http://blog.empuk.host-ed.me/index.php/8-domotique/3-veralite-plugin-simplealarm-en
I saw it on the app store today.
[quote=“AgileHumor, post:37, topic:179001”]Has anyone tried this plugin?
Simple Alarm Plugin
http://blog.empuk.host-ed.me/index.php/8-domotique/3-veralite-plugin-simplealarm-en
I saw it on the app store today.[/quote]
I did not even know about this! Looks good as a start for a more complex alarm
I wonder how easy/hard it would be to extend this to add…
Sirens chirp during IncomingTimerDuration.
More modes - I have 7 security scenes, and could add more.
Hi Guys,
I’m doing the exact same thing. I could do everything with scenes (arm/disarm/delay arm sensors, lock doors etc.)
The only thing I can’t seem to do using the UI is - how do I “tell” my siren to turn on when an armed sensor is tripped?
Or for that matter, the camera to record?
I’m sorry if I am missing something trivial, I just got my veralite 2 days ago and love it already.
I thought it would be something trivial in vera, like turning on a light when a motion detector detects movement, so I should be able to “turn on” my siren that way, no?
Also, on the same topic, for some reason my fotrezz siren shows up as on off only, not as dimmable, so I can’t select 30% to choose alarm mode (strobe, siren or both). it keeps resetting my device_file to D_Siren1.xml even if I try to change it to dimmable light. Any thoughts?
Any help would be appreciated, so far - using scenes only, I got my alarm working perfectly with notifications.
P.S in the UI6 they added a very cool “preset modes” in the simple UI that simplifies it even more, but again - I can’t turn on my siren - I can only send notifications. (here, they gave the option to record video when sensor is tripped which is super cool).
sirpinky:
I have a Utilitech Z-wave siren (generic model of the Everspring version from Lowes) so I can’t comment on the Fortrezz not being able to dim so as to do strobe only or strobe + siren (Utilitech is either on or off with siren and strobe) but I can help with the siren or cameras tripping when an armed sensor is tripped.
In the Vera UI (I’m on UI 5) I have two scenes that work together “Armed - Away” and “Siren Activated”. The Armed - Away scene arms all my z-wave sensors at once when I’ve left the house (I have advanced location-based management that does this automatically via the iPhone Locator app and a PLEG). If any of these armed sensors are tripped, the z-wave siren is set to go off. Under the Siren Activated scene you’ll want to manage delays. Immediate will trigger the siren “on” and then after 5 minutes (or whatever time you feel is sufficient) you’ll want to have the siren turn off. The “triggers” in this scene is any armed sensor is tripped. That way the siren will only trigger when a z-wave sensor in the armed state is tripped.
For cameras, I don’t know exactly what type you have but in my foscam camera settings I have it set so that when my armed scene arms the cameras, any motion detected takes snapshots of the motion and archives the photos. You can of course also use Vera to send you text-based alerts for any of these conditions (motion detected, armed sensors tripped etc). Vera is my alarm system and my home automation all in one. I love it.