Upgrade UI7 firmware before or after migration from VeraLite/UI5?

Vera Controllers, Services & Devices Vera Controllers & Cameras
#1

Hello All,

So like many on this forum, I am on the cusp of migrating from my 4 year-old VeraLite running UI5 to my newly purchased VeraEdge running UI7. I say “newly purchased”; it was actually purchased six months ago and has been sitting unopened in the box until I get time to do this migration, which I fear - based on the numerous posts here - will be full of pitfalls. I’ve decided it’s time to take the plunge and risk bricking my controllers.

Having said that, I have a couple of questions that Vera support has not been successful at addressing to my satisfaction, and I can’t find recent discussions about here on this forum:

  1. Should I update the firmware on the VeraEdge before or after I do the migration from the VeraLite to the VeraEdge? I’m concerned about updating the firmware because of the update horror stories that fill this forum. I presume that updating the VeraEdge to the most recent UI7 firmware before I migrate will offer the best chance of a clean firmware update and clean migration. But I don’t know if I’m correct in that presumption.

  2. Has the migration process (as outlined here) become more robust over the last few months? I’ve checked my plug-ins; they’re all UI7 compatible, and I only have about 40 physical z-wave devices, but about 80 virtual devices. Additionally, I have over a thousand lines of LUUP code used in scenes and in scene triggers that I really don’t want to re-type (though I have it thoroughly documented). I ask this question because the process on the migration page (linked above) starts with a warning about how the z-wave chips in the VeraLite and the VeraEdge are different and may not be compatible, and thus one will probably have to manually rebuild the system - and then goes right on with the steps to perform the migration via the UI firmware! (So… you say this will most likely crash the system and you will probably have to rebuild the whole network manually, but hey… do it anyway! Not a great confidence builder…)

And yes - I’ve read all of the previous threads that I can find on this topic and the majority are over a year old. I’m hoping that the bugs have been worked out and I can migrate my system without (too much) concern. But then I see the recent firmware upgrade nightmare threads and I have my doubts.

Thoughts? Advice?

Melsman

#2

From what I have read and my migration experience on a Vera 3 - I manually rebuilt the system from UI5, to UI6, and eventually UI7, with little issues. But I do not have nearly as large a system as yours. What some folks have done is get the new Vera running and slowly move devices and logic over to the new system. You can even turn one Vera into a slave of the other. You can take your time, eventually have a clean install, and still have your house humming as you migrate.

#3

Thanks for your input Don. I can see the value in a gradual migration as you describe, but I’ve not run master/slave controllers in the past and my logic and devices “cross pollinate” considerably. This brings up the question in my mind of, if a device is on one controller, but the logic is on another, will it still work properly? I.e., let’s say I’ve moved my door locks to the VeraEdge UI7, and the “Away from Home” virtual switch (still on the UI5 VeraLite) is tripped, triggering lighting devices (on the VeraLite) and the door locks on the VeraEdge.

#4

[quote=“melsman, post:1, topic:197691”]So like many on this forum, I am on the cusp of migrating from my 4 year-old VeraLite running UI5 to my newly purchased VeraEdge running UI7.

Thoughts? Advice?
Melsman[/quote]

I just ordered a VeraSecure to replace my UI5 Vera3. My Vera3 shows 130 devices, with 11 PLEGs. And I am going to do the upgrade manually by removing each device from the Vera3 and adding to the VeraSecure. Crazy as it sounds, that is the only way I know everything gets loaded correctly, and this system is pretty darn important to keeping my house efficient. I don’t really think a partial or slow cut makes sense. I want to copy over (cut-and-paste from PDF) my PLEGs, and will need all the devices on the new system to get the bindings right. So I am expecting a full 8+ hour day to do the migration and test functionality. Will find a day over the Christmas break to do it…

#5

Any regrets/issues with upgrading from UI5 to UI7?
I have a Veralite with UI5 and I did goto UI7 a while ago only to revert back to UI5 (Dont remember why, but prob from stabalization or some other bugs). Just want to see if it is worth to try and go back to UI7.

TIA

#6

Well, so far, it’s been less than perfect, but as one person said on here, it’s better to move to the future than stay in the past.

UI7 is definitely meant to be more ‘user friendly’ to the average person buying it off of the shelf and throwing in a couple of screw-in z-wave bulbs and having Alexa tell them to turn off and on. And I’ve also noticed that UI7 is significantly faster in response time and capability. UI7 does seem to be stable, but MCV still seems to be shooting themselves in the foot each time they do a firmware upgrade.

My Vera Edge upgraded to the latest firmware the moment I brought it on-line (going to 1.7.3231), so my original question was answered for me. However, I used the ‘move the z-wave network over and then transfer the logic a bit at a time’ method, given that I had 100+ devices - (38 physical devices - 65+ virtual devices) and tech support kept hinting that it was better to start with a clean slate.

The migration only bricked two of my physical devices (could’ve been their time to die anyway - who knows) and almost all of my battery devices ‘waited to wake up’ for much longer than the normal ‘wake-up’ cycle. I had to re-pair many of them to get them to work. And then I discovered that the latest firmware deleted the ability of Schlage lock PIN codes to trigger scenes - something that UI5 did happily - as well as earlier versions of UI7. So - here I am a little over a week and about 30 hours later, and everything is mostly back on-line. (I’ve worked around the lock PIN# issue for now. Not a good work-around - so MCV; please get this fixed!)

As others have reported, writing the scenes in UI7 takes many more clicks of the mouse than in UI5. But I also think it’s a little more logical and easier to understand for non-coders. By transferring my logic myself, I learned the new system and was able to consolidate some of the scene routines that had been built over the last four years that often would be at odds with each other.

One other thing I noticed - the UI7 LUUP window seems to be more tolerant of phantom characters often inserted by word processors during cut & paste operations. I spent hours chasing phantom character demons when pasting into UI5 from MS Word. I haven’t really tested this thoroughly, but the few times I pasted directly into UI7 from my .docx documentation, I had no problems. (Most of my cut & paste was from the UI5 LUUP window into the UI7 LUUP window. No problem with that at all either.)

BTW MCV - How about making the UI7 window sizable? I can’t see more than just a few lines of code at once, which makes debugging challenging.

Now that I’m on UI7, I’ll be staying. I like many of the new features in UI7, including the house modes. I was using virtual switches to accomplish the same thing in UI5, so I was able to reduce my LUUP load significantly. And I will convert my Vera Lite to a UI7 box when I bring it to life in another application. And I like the fact that when you create a scene or delete, the SAVE is done automatically, rather than going for the red button. But you have to remember that the SAVE and requisite reboot still takes time.

One note - if you use logic/LUUP at all, be sure to install the House Modes app. That really makes the house modes option useful. Being able to change and trigger house modes in scenes opens up many options. I have other modes that I use (triggered by virtual switches), but they dovetail nicely within the four main modes. (For example, I have a ‘housesitter mode’ that only runs when in Vacation Mode.) Also, do yourself a favor and activate the ‘Notifications Header’ under the Users & Account Info > Notifications Settings tab. It will help you realize when something has gone awry. Like bad LUUP code… Oh, and be sure to check your app compatibility with UI7. Load the apps manually in UI7 as part of the logic transfer.

My VeraMate iPhone app still works with UI7, so that’s a good thing; though the Vera app isn’t bad- my wife likes it better because it’s more simple.

Another bright note - phone tech support has been really good; much better than most tech companies. But even they run into issues they don’t quite understand sometimes.

So - overall, I’m glad I made the leap. It’s still not perfect, but it is better IMHO. Though it’s definitely not as easy as I believe it should be.

Melsman

#7

… oh, and let me add that I, like many people here, have no idea what kind of brain-spasm led to the almost useless thermostat device screen in UI7. It was pretty useful in UI5; but UI7’s is not. >:(

I’ve completely ignored it in my control logic and have gone straight to LUUP commands to control the thermostat.

Melsman

#8

[quote=“melsman, post:6, topic:197691”]Well, so far, it’s been less than perfect, but as one person said on here, it’s better to move to the future than stay in the past.

UI7 is definitely meant to be more ‘user friendly’ to the average person buying it off of the shelf and throwing in a couple of screw-in z-wave bulbs and having Alexa tell them to turn off and on. And I’ve also noticed that UI7 is significantly faster in response time and capability. UI7 does seem to be stable, but MCV still seems to be shooting themselves in the foot each time they do a firmware upgrade.

My Vera Edge upgraded to the latest firmware the moment I brought it on-line (going to 1.7.3231), so my original question was answered for me. However, I used the ‘move the z-wave network over and then transfer the logic a bit at a time’ method, given that I had 100+ devices - (38 physical devices - 65+ virtual devices) and tech support kept hinting that it was better to start with a clean slate.

The migration only bricked two of my physical devices (could’ve been their time to die anyway - who knows) and almost all of my battery devices ‘waited to wake up’ for much longer than the normal ‘wake-up’ cycle. I had to re-pair many of them to get them to work. And then I discovered that the latest firmware deleted the ability of Schlage lock PIN codes to trigger scenes - something that UI5 did happily - as well as earlier versions of UI7. So - here I am a little over a week and about 30 hours later, and everything is mostly back on-line. (I’ve worked around the lock PIN# issue for now. Not a good work-around - so MCV; please get this fixed!)

As others have reported, writing the scenes in UI7 takes many more clicks of the mouse than in UI5. But I also think it’s a little more logical and easier to understand for non-coders. By transferring my logic myself, I learned the new system and was able to consolidate some of the scene routines that had been built over the last four years that often would be at odds with each other.

One other thing I noticed - the UI7 LUUP window seems to be more tolerant of phantom characters often inserted by word processors during cut & paste operations. I spent hours chasing phantom character demons when pasting into UI5 from MS Word. I haven’t really tested this thoroughly, but the few times I pasted directly into UI7 from my .docx documentation, I had no problems. (Most of my cut & paste was from the UI5 LUUP window into the UI7 LUUP window. No problem with that at all either.)

BTW MCV - How about making the UI7 window sizable? I can’t see more than just a few lines of code at once, which makes debugging challenging.

Now that I’m on UI7, I’ll be staying. I like many of the new features in UI7, including the house modes. I was using virtual switches to accomplish the same thing in UI5, so I was able to reduce my LUUP load significantly. And I will convert my Vera Lite to a UI7 box when I bring it to life in another application. And I like the fact that when you create a scene or delete, the SAVE is done automatically, rather than going for the red button. But you have to remember that the SAVE and requisite reboot still takes time.

One note - if you use logic/LUUP at all, be sure to install the House Modes app. That really makes the house modes option useful. Being able to change and trigger house modes in scenes opens up many options. I have other modes that I use (triggered by virtual switches), but they dovetail nicely within the four main modes. (For example, I have a ‘housesitter mode’ that only runs when in Vacation Mode.) Also, do yourself a favor and activate the ‘Notifications Header’ under the Users & Account Info > Notifications Settings tab. It will help you realize when something has gone awry. Like bad LUUP code… Oh, and be sure to check your app compatibility with UI7. Load the apps manually in UI7 as part of the logic transfer.

My VeraMate iPhone app still works with UI7, so that’s a good thing; though the Vera app isn’t bad- my wife likes it better because it’s more simple.

Another bright note - phone tech support has been really good; much better than most tech companies. But even they run into issues they don’t quite understand sometimes.

So - overall, I’m glad I made the leap. It’s still not perfect, but it is better IMHO. Though it’s definitely not as easy as I believe it should be.

Melsman[/quote]

I’m about to do the same. can you detail the process a bit more? When you add the devices the new unit do the scenes or plegs on the old unit still trigger them?