Time to abandon ship - Excellent alternative!

Other Devices & Integrations More Home Control
1

For those of you like myself who are fed up with MCV and their complete lack of support for Insteon, take a look at a new device in development on Kickstarter: [url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soaprouter/soap-first-smart-router-w-touch-display-powered-by]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soaprouter/soap-first-smart-router-w-touch-display-powered-by[/url]

It’s a 802.11ac router based on Android with Zigbee, Z-Wave, INTEGRATED Insteon, Bluetooth, RFID, NFC, touchscreen and more for $150! The developers also mentioned planning a home automation manager with “Tasker-like” functionality. Basically a major win in my book at a very reasonable price. There’s also a non-touchscreen model with a bit less storage for about $80.

As a side note, I’d like to mention that outstanding independent developers like garrettwp, PurdueGuy, and fba have made my Vera experience bearable, and quite frankly are the only reason I haven’t left the device long ago.

2

Thanks for the shout-out. 8)

I saw that Soap controller as well, but I am content with my ISY/Vera setup. It has been humming along well lately, and I haven’t really touched anything in weeks (I usually tinker and try things out), but I have been happy, and it’s stable.

One thing with the Soap…I assume it will have a wireless Insteon controller inside, so you’ll need to place it near dual-band devices, such that it can communicate to the power line for power-line only devices. Also, you might always be losing 1 hop to get to devices, since nothing is reachable directly via power line.

Also, this is touted as a touch-screen router…who knows why. Granted, I did back the Almond+, but not to ever use the touchscreen, but possibly as a replacement for Vera. With all the cable necessary for the Almond, it wouldn’t make sense to have any router in a location where you might interact with it every day…unless you can hide the cables. The Almond+ should be delivered in the next month or so (and I pre-ordered in January 2013!)

I agree with the lack of “real” Insteon support being frustrating.

3

[quote=“mwbehr, post:1, topic:179935”]For those of you like myself who are fed up with MCV and their complete lack of support for Insteon, take a look at a new device in development on Kickstarter: [url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soaprouter/soap-first-smart-router-w-touch-display-powered-by]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soaprouter/soap-first-smart-router-w-touch-display-powered-by[/url]

It’s a 802.11ac router based on Android with Zigbee, Z-Wave, INTEGRATED Insteon, Bluetooth, RFID, NFC, touchscreen and more for $150! The developers also mentioned planning a home automation manager with “Tasker-like” functionality. Basically a major win in my book at a very reasonable price. There’s also a non-touchscreen model with a bit less storage for about $80.[/quote]

Yup, covers every radio standard out there by abstracting the transport layer from the automation and scheduling engine. And they can do it all for that price. It’s just another example of what can be done. Competition is good, it drives prices down, I can’t see how MCV will be able to compete with any of these projects once they make it to market.

Keeping my fingers crossed…

-TC

4

@PurdueGuy

Due to the work of you and others, I also have a basically functioning system, but I wouldn’t really call it “stable” for me. It may just be my Vera, but I’ve had several occasions where I had to start all over (even backups wouldn’t restore correctly). Power outages seem to be the major culprit. Also, having used other systems that communicate with Insteon devices quickly and simultaneously, I’ve always felt like this was more of a “patched together” setup.

You’re correct that it’s RF only (I asked and they confirmed this fact), although they also mentioned plans for a powerline accessory. Personally, I doubt I’ll mind much as I don’t have any “powerline only” modules as it is.

I agree about the touchscreen, though I personally would have a use for it. I had thought about putting a centralized interface panel in my house anyway, so this works out perfect. I do like, however, how they offer a significant discount for those not interested in the touchscreen.

I’d looked at the Almond+ before. Unfortunately they made it clear that they never intend to support Insteon at all.

5

Maybe someone will develop a plugin for it… and so the journey begins…

6

Having backed a number of kickstarter projects, I’m a bit skeptical, although I imagine they’ll be able to deliver something. I’d also be willing to bet that they’ll be a few months late, at least (one electronics-related project that I backed is currently over a year late :frowning: ). Other comments:

[ul][li]I hope that the router functionality can be disabled, as I don’t need it.[/li]
[li]It doesn’t appear to be hackable/configurable, until they hit the $150K stretch goal. I think they’ll make it, but it’ll suck if they don’t.[/li]
[li]They do seem to be throwing a bunch of features against the wall, to see what sticks (what people like). I don’t need any of the special wifi/lan functionality, for example.[/li][/ul]

I’m not going to back them. If they do succeed and have a good product, I’ll just buy it at retail prices. I think that’s much safer (who knows, maybe something better will appear in the meantime).

7

[quote=“JustSomeGuy, post:6, topic:179935”]Having backed a number of kickstarter projects, I’m a bit skeptical, although I imagine they’ll be able to deliver something. I’d also be willing to bet that they’ll be a few months late, at least (one electronics-related project that I backed is currently over a year late :frowning: ). Other comments:

[ul][li]I hope that the router functionality can be disabled, as I don’t need it.[/li]
[li]It doesn’t appear to be hackable/configurable, until they hit the $150K stretch goal. I think they’ll make it, but it’ll suck if they don’t.[/li]
[li]They do seem to be throwing a bunch of features against the wall, to see what sticks (what people like). I don’t need any of the special wifi/lan functionality, for example.[/li][/ul]

I’m not going to back them. If they do succeed and have a good product, I’ll just buy it at retail prices. I think that’s much safer (who knows, maybe something better will appear in the meantime).[/quote]

Perfectly reasonable to be somewhat skeptical, particularly about the timeline. Manufacturing and development delays certainly aren’t unique to Kickstarter. As for it being hackable, I don’t think they intend to limit it without reaching that goal, it just won’t come packaged with the additional OS. A quote from their comments section:

“@Andrew we are working to make a lot of different types of OS you can run besides Android or Kali Linux. DD-WRT is one will work to make available, we have a lot of hardware DD-WRT doesn’t support as of now, but we will release the required information to fix this problem. We want people to hack Soap and to do whatever they want with it. The people at Kali want to use it as network penetration testing device…That actually would be scary in my opinion.”

As for some of their extra features like their internet security suite, I agree and also don’t intend to use it. However, it’s nice to see them putting such effort into an “all-in-one” device. Obviously no one will want EVERY feature, but if they do it right, no one will feel like it’s missing simple features either.

8

My worry with all these products is if they will support all the z-wave devices out there. Vera supports a lot of them but not all. I’m still waiting for confirmation on the Lowe’s Iris smoke detector being fully supported for one. Will Soap support eg my Schlage locks?

For now Vera has been pretty stable for me.

9

That’s great in theory, but in practice? ???

I’d be concerned that the extra fluff features are going to affect the core functionality. Maybe they’ll have no problems delivering, but it seems to me that kickstarter projects can have trouble delivering even their core/basic functionality (some features may be implemented long after rewards ship, for example).

Also, I’ve got to question some of their ideas. A touchscreen in a router?? I don’t know about you, but I’d want to put the UI in a convenient common location, such as the kitchen. However, a router should go where the internet connection (cable, dsl, fiber, whatever) enters the home, and, for me, that is most definitely not the kitchen.

I’ve had sufficient issues with KS projects that I’ll now generally wait for the retail release. I may back niche/one-of-a-kind projects, but that’s about it. (And, waiting for the retail release might actually get you a product faster; a certain-to-be-unnamed KS project appears to have shipped product to a major retailer before backers. >:( )

10

[quote=“JustSomeGuy, post:9, topic:179935”](And, waiting for the retail release might actually get you a product faster; a certain-to-be-unnamed KS project appears to have shipped product to a major retailer before backers. >:( )[/quote]Exactly. I was part of that! :-[

11

[quote=“JustSomeGuy, post:9, topic:179935”]Also, I’ve got to question some of their ideas. A touchscreen in a router?? I don’t know about you, but I’d want to put the UI in a convenient common location, such as the kitchen. However, a router should go where the internet connection (cable, dsl, fiber, whatever) enters the home, and, for me, that is most definitely not the kitchen.[/quote]maybe you missed it when you read the kick starter page but they have an option without the screen for half the price. You can use an app or mirror the screen

12

At this point in time it’s just another platform that has a Z-Wave chip attached.

I have 3 different USB Z-Wave dongles at home now right that I can put on any of my various compute platforms at home.

The software layers and infrastructure to abstract away the differences, yet provide a consistent device interface API, that is extensible, and where they can manage growth from one to version to the next … That’s what I need … And today that is STILL Vera.

And yes … I am still waiting for my Almond!

13

I decided to back this.

Richards comments are spot on. I’m hoping the OS, though, will help with those issues.

14

Hope those who backed it have read this: SOAP: The Home Automation Router And Kickstarter Scam | Hackaday

15

Just another reason why Kickstarter is disingenuous in some ways. Good ol’ fashion capitalism says, you work hard, you take the risks (borrow/put up your own money), you reap the rewards, if it is a product the public truly wants.

And as many folks have pointed out, once Kickstarter gets their cut, they could care less who gets screwed.

16

I’m still waiting for my Almond + also… at this point I’m not sure it will be worth a crap. They seem to be unable to deliver any of the promises they made. I no longer need an AC router so the only thing of value may be the HS radios, maybe.

While the community code here has made my Vera usable (thanks guys!!!) I definitely do not consider it stable. My Vera requires frequent reboots as things simply stop working… like PLEG, switches, etc. I suspect due to memory leaks in the OS as a reboot fixes it all up so I’m back to nightly reboots. Maybe some of the consolidated virtual switch code Richard is working on will help this.

I’m not about to back another KS in the HA arena as they have all been huge duds for out of the gate functionality… price wise, they are a bargain for the hardware though.

17

I realize that I’m entering this late, but have you tried restarting just the LuaUPnP engine? On my veralite, that’s the biggest process by far, and restarting that is much quicker than rebooting (for me, maybe 15 seconds?). The engine can grow, either from unbounded data allocation or actual memory leaks, and restarting it should clean things up.

18

+1. good write up, probably applies to %50+ of KS tech projects…

19

Hey guys…you need to read the update on hackaday…new board shows to be legit…I hate rumors.

v/r

Edgar

20

[quote=“Edgaronline, post:19, topic:179935”]Hey guys…you need to read the update on hackaday…new board shows to be legit…I hate rumors.

v/r

Edgar[/quote]

The KS is over, so it’s not like it matters at this point. If I’m going to buy one it will have to be after it reaches retail. That being said, I feel as though they were a bit disingenuous about their board. Even looking at the new PCB it is nothing like the ones they originally posted which did look like the Bunnie laptop. You can say what you will, and maybe you’ll get lucky, but I just get a gut feeling about companies like that and until I see an actual product I’m not even going to waste anymore brain cells on it.

I will say this… it is sad that you have to say “new board seems legit…I hate rumors”. There were no rumors, the board they showed was not what they said it was, they basically lied and got caught. Now maybe they always had intentions of doing it and just thought they would throw up some quick renderings of another board, but that was just in bad taste and poor judgement. The similarities are just too close to say it was an accident or coincidence.

edit: The above is just my opinion, I don’t mean any offense to anyone at all.