Thinking about coming back from SmartThings

Community Playground General Discussions
1

Hello,

So the traitor left to SmartThings V2. Basically because I was tired of the 2am reboots, lack of UI7 stability, nothing reliable for presence and finally, got a new thermostat that SmartThings had an app for, that Vera didn’t.

I hate SmartThings! Ran an update on VeraLite to latest, and things seem pretty nice.

Before I walk around my house and redo all my devices, I’d like to know a few questions.

  1. Off as toggle. SmartThings has a brilliant app that lets you re-use a paddle switch to toggle another. I had something similar setup with PLEG, but it was pretty complex.
  2. Do the nightly reboots still happen? If yes, does it “lose” track of time/events?
  3. Any issues with Authomation HD? I see it hasn’t been updated in a while - i installed it and seemed to find Vera OK, but any ui7 hiccups here?
  4. What’s up with the login - I tried to clear some messages on dashboard, it kept telling me to login. I created a new account, got the device connected/found, but anything that requires login, just seems to go into a cycle. I’m probably going to just reset the Vera and try again…
  5. If i disable internet access, what side effects are to be expected?

I saw the Geofencing topic and Richard S’s reply that his setup works 99% of the time. Is that common? My ST’s presence works about 90% of the time, so i’d be Ok if those results are repeatable without much fuss.

I hate the “local” processing of SmartThings - makes me yearn for Vera.

2

Welcome back. I’m eager to hear what you did and did not like with SmartThings.

UI7 has improved and continues to improve. But, it’s still got many of the same warts. Right now, the forum is buzzing because Vera just released the Vera Plus a week or so ago. It has more memory than the Edge and also has Bluetooth and Zigbee radios as well. Actually using them is still a work in progress but…

[quote=“Armedmetallica, post:1, topic:191303”]1. Off as toggle. SmartThings has a brilliant app that lets you re-use a paddle switch to toggle another. I had something similar setup with PLEG, but it was pretty complex.[/quote]I’m unfamiliar with this feature, so I can;t really answer the question. You can have a switch act as a trigger to run a scene that controls other switches. Just don;t forget that if you don;t have an Instant Status switch, it might take a few seconds to happen.

2. Do the nightly reboots still happen? If yes, does it "lose" track of time/events?
Nightly heals still occur and the reload of the Vera engine will cause running times to fail. PLEG handles this without a problem.
3. Any issues with Authomation HD? I see it hasn't been updated in a while - i installed it and seemed to find Vera OK, but any ui7 hiccups here?
Authomation is no longer being developed. It still works great, but I'd expect problems to start popping up as Vera changes and it doesn't. @garrettwp moved over to openHAB.
4. What's up with the login - I tried to clear some messages on dashboard, it kept telling me to login. I created a new account, got the device connected/found, but anything that requires login, just seems to go into a cycle. I'm probably going to just reset the Vera and try again...
I can't help here.
5. If i disable internet access, what side effects are to be expected?
If Vera reboots without Internet, time will be off and scheduled events won't happen in the way that they should. If you remove internet after Vera has booted and gotten the time, then things should function but the clock will likely drift. Vera needs a NTP server to get the time if you're cutting off internet. This is not new. Of course, you'll also lose remote access/control, backups, notifications...
I saw the Geofencing topic and Richard S's reply that his setup works 99% of the time. Is that common? My ST's presence works about 90% of the time, so i'd be Ok if those results are repeatable without much fuss.
@RichardTSchaefer hasn't lied to us yet. Setup correctly his Vera Proximity app works great. Vera's own app and geofencing is pretty terrible.
I hate the "local" processing of SmartThings - makes me yearn for Vera.
Can you explain more about this and why you hate it?
3

[quote=“Z-Waver, post:2, topic:191303”]Welcome back. I’m eager to hear what you did and did not like with SmartThings.

UI7 has improved and continues to improve. But, it’s still got many of the same warts. Right now, the forum is buzzing because Vera just released the Vera Plus a week or so ago. It has more memory than the Edge and also has Bluetooth and Zigbee radios as well. Actually using them is still a work in progress but…[/quote].
Seeing a thread about VeraPlus on sale is what made me rethink coming back. Saw comments about it being mature, etc.

I'm unfamiliar with this feature, so I can;t really answer the question. You can have a switch act as a trigger to run a scene that controls other switches. Just don;t forget that if you don;t have an Instant Status switch, it might take a few seconds to happen.
the few seconds is OK - but it sounds like i might have to get something done in PLEG to answer this.
Nightly heals still occur and the reload of the Vera engine will cause running times to fail. PLEG handles this without a problem.
That stinks. Hopefully I can PLEG it without hassle.
Authomation is no longer being developed. It still works great, but I'd expect problems to start popping up as Vera changes and it doesn't. @garrettwp moved over to openHAB.
I was afraid of that Authomation's voice control was and still is top of the line. Checking status of temps, open close door was awesome. Hope it sticks around without breaking. I too might look into openHAB.
If Vera reboots without Internet, time will be off and scheduled events won't happen in the way that they should. If you remove internet after Vera has booted and gotten the time, then things should function but the clock will likely drift. Vera needs a NTP server to get the time if you're cutting off internet. This is not new. Of course, you'll also lose remote access/control, backups, notifications...
yeah - i think this was an issue in the past - i believe I got my AD controller to respond to NTP. Not sure if i killed that or what. I don't care about remote access - I remote in via always connected VPN, so I have "local" access all the time. And really, if the home/away modes work properly, I don't need to interact while i'm away unless something comes up. So even if the VPN is disconnected, I can reconnect and check in.
@RichardTSchaefer hasn't lied to us yet. Setup correctly his Vera Proximity app works great. Vera's own app and geofencing is pretty terrible.
Geofencing / presence is pretty important at this point. Up until then, I had a semi-smart home. That I had to manually remember to tell I'm away, or have calendar events for the house to know. Arrival scenes firing is not just impressive - but a nice to have. Lights on at night, music, etc, does make a difference.
Can you explain more about this and why you hate it?
It didn't work! It was limited in scenarios where it would work. Only official apps would work. Even though the Aeon Minimotes were supposed to work without the "cloud" it was hit or miss. I have a lot of the "off as toggle" type setups, and all of those fail when Samsung cloud wasn't up. Motion was supposed to be local, but again was hit or miss.

At this point it’s not true local processing the way Vera is.

My thermostat was replaced by Lennox - to a version that is NO longer compatible with SmartThings, and My 3 month old Motion Sensor failed. So, now I have two reasons + lack of proper local processing to dump ST and come back to Vera.

Oh - can you add devices to Vera without having to bring vera to each room (battery/low pwer inclusion)?

4

Maybe. The new Z-Wave protocol, Z-Wave Gen5 or Z-Wave Plus, supports Network Wide Inclusion(NWI). The Vera Edge and Vera Plus are both Gen5 devices that support the NWI feature.

NWI allows you to include an new device anywhere within the Z-Wave mesh network, without moving the Z-Wave controller(Vera). However, this feature only works when including Gen5 devices in Gen5 networks. It may(probably) fail with legacy Z-Wave devices or legacy networks.

If you’ve got a mix of old Z-Wave and new Z-Wave Gen5 devices, you’ll probably have to move Vera to include.

5

There is a battery pack available for the Edge to do inclusion as we could do with the Vera Lite’s:

http://www.thesmartesthouse.com/products/battery-pack-for-veraedge-z-wave-home-controller

6

If I were you, I would not come back to Vera. In my opinion the UI7 has been a disaster (particularly since the zwave firmware upgrade). VeraPlus has done absolutely nothing to fix the issues. In fact, from what I can see, things have gotten much worse. Zwave communication across the network seems alot slower and significantly less reliable. At least for the time being, I would stay away.

7

I would agree, After the z-wave update devices randomly drop or stop responding, manual routing or even checking the routing are not so easy and clearly outlined tasks.

The the PLUS seems to have all these problems and more (normal new device bugs/ features not added yet that were on the edge) right now.

8

Each to their own… My Vera (lite and plus) have been perfect on UI7, and 100% reliable.

So the only thing to take away is that it isn’t a perfect experience for everyone, and YMMV…

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

9

[quote=“JasonJoel, post:8, topic:191303”]Each to their own… My Vera (lite and plus) have been perfect on UI7, and 100% reliable.

So the only thing to take away is that it isn’t a perfect experience for everyone, and YMMV…

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk[/quote]

Agreed, no issues with my lite, edge, or plus.

10

Thanks everyone - sounds like it’s definitely a mixed bag.

11

I have 15 switches (GE switches), 2 smoke detectors, 1 front door lock and one happy wife. Everything performs well and is super smooth with 100% wife approval for not making it a pain in the butt (which was her major concern) - experimenting with 2 motion sensors and 7 window sensors but they’re not active in the system yet as i may return them because they eat batteries doing nothing.

12

I am running two vera edge boxes.

One is a cabin. All devices are zwave to include a camera, leak sensors (bought at home depot/utilitech), door/window monitor and four 4-1 motion sensors.

The other is a blend of zwave and concord 4 wired/wireless devices through a Superbus 2000 wireless automation module. This system has 6 cameras analog cameras going through 6 NV412A’s (old Adt pulse crap/IP servers), connected to the home network. Everything is working within Vera. I had some growing pains with this set up with the cameras. If it loses connection to the internet the concord 4 modules default to “no room”. Installing a backup fixes the issue.

I have had no issues with either box for many months. The last 3 updates or so have gone smooth. Once I had to go back to factory and re-install a backup. Took next to no time. I was ready to drop some cash on homeseer thinking I could solve my problems. Reading their boards I hesitated. Grass looked only a little greener. I am glad I stuck it out. A screwy update could change my tune.

I don’t have many plugin or apps installed. Just the house mode plugin and a camera app.

13

From what I can gather, If you do come back do it on fresh hardware and do NOT try to migrate anything. Looking at my logs even after a factory reset, the new VeraPlus is trying to connect to camera’s from 5 years ago. Only explanation is after I tried to migrate using the Veras recommanded procedure and restoring from a backup, once copied over there are files that wont be wiped clean no matter what. I suppose I could dig around but too much work, I don’t know the file structure and purpose of each file.

I discovered this when PLEG refused to save ANYTHING. I tried everything suggested on the forum to no avail. I have a ticket open but being a third party app I doubt it goes anywhere. Scenes also have a really hard time sticking. As soon as support closes the ticket I am unplugging it and putting it on ebay.

UI5 has served me well, and I would recommend that but I cant say the same for anything running UI7. I have wasted probably 50 hours troubleshooting, Dont do it to yourself… Again.

14

I recommend looking at Imperihome. I think I still prefer AutHomation but Imperihome isn’t bad.

It’s pretty easy to have one switch control other stuff without PLEG. I’m on UI5 but the basics are the same. Admittedly, PLEG is a pretty easy.

Create a scene that does what you want. If it’s as simple as “when switch #1 turn on, make switch #2 turn on”, then the scene just has to set switch #2 to ON. Then create a trigger based on Switch #1 turning on.

You could make an “off” scene so you have both ON and OFF scenarios.

Or you could do it in a single LUUP scene. Have it trigger on both switch #1 on and switch #1 off.

If switch #1 is device 35 and switch #2 (the slave device) is device 40:

local switch=35
local device=40

local switchOnOff = luup.variable_get(“urn:upnp-org:serviceId:SwitchPower1”, “Status”, switch)

if (switchOnOff == “0”) then
– Switch#1 is off, need to turn off switch#2
luup.call_action(“urn:upnp-org:serviceId:Dimming1”, “SetLoadLevelTarget”, {newLoadlevelTarget = “0”}, device)
luup.call_action(“urn:upnp-org:serviceId:SwitchPower1”,“SetTarget”,{ newTargetValue=“0” },device)
else
–switch #2 is on, ned to turn on switch #2
luup.call_action(“urn:upnp-org:serviceId:SwitchPower1”,“SetTarget”,{ newTargetValue=“1” },device)
luup.call_action(“urn:upnp-org:serviceId:Dimming1”, “SetLoadLevelTarget”, {newLoadlevelTarget = “100”}, device)

end
15

Thanks for putting up an interesting topic. Insightful read.

I’ve maybe been really lucky, but I’ve never had to bring my vera lite over to include. Even for switches and locks i thought for sure were too far out of range (150ft+).

I hated the instability of vera for a long time, but I migrated to UI7 a few months ago, and I have to admit the process was pleasantly smooth and easy. I too had also moved all my logic processing to openhab, so that may have helped ease the transition.

16

[quote=“Inzax, post:12, topic:191303”]I am running two vera edge boxes.

One is a cabin. All devices are zwave to include a camera, leak sensors (bought at home depot/utilitech), door/window monitor and four 4-1 motion sensors.

The other is a blend of zwave and concord 4 wired/wireless devices through a Superbus 2000 wireless automation module. This system has 6 cameras analog cameras going through 6 NV412A’s (old Adt pulse crap/IP servers), connected to the home network. Everything is working within Vera. I had some growing pains with this set up with the cameras. If it loses connection to the internet the concord 4 modules default to “no room”. Installing a backup fixes the issue.

I have had no issues with either box for many months. The last 3 updates or so have gone smooth. Once I had to go back to factory and re-install a backup. Took next to no time. I was ready to drop some cash on homeseer thinking I could solve my problems. Reading their boards I hesitated. Grass looked only a little greener. I am glad I stuck it out. A screwy update could change my tune.

I don’t have many plugin or apps installed. Just the house mode plugin and a camera app.[/quote]