http://gigaom.com/2013/09/24/move-over-best-buy-staples-wants-to-be-your-shop-for-the-connected-home/
So it seems the HA space is just a little bit more crowded now with Staples jumping in with a Zwave ZonOff based system. It will be interesting to see if they go the Vera route with no monthly fee, or follow the Nexia/Iris route with a monthly fee.
Should be interesting to see how this $99 hub works.
According to this article in CE Pro magazine (CE Pro Article) there is no monthly fee. Sounds like more real competition for MCV. They either better get on the ball with more support and a more stable platform or newcomers like Staples and Almond+ are going to kill them, at least in the diy space.
While I am somewhat concerned about Vera’s future due to fracturing of the market, I’m not sure that I see Staples making a big difference in this industry. On the flip side, I’m hoping that all of these new entrants and sales outlets will drive down the excessive cost of the Z-Wave hardware. There’s no reason/excuse for a switch to cost $60, or even $40.
The article did lead me to this very interesting story about the new First Alert Z-Wave smoke alarm. A noticeably missing item in the U.S. Z-Wave hardware market.
Most of these new systems will be very limited in function / features. Unless they offer the ability to create plugins and have a set of api’s for development, I won’t even consider it.
- Garrett
I am happy to see the Lutron Clear Connect products being supported …
That could be a significant step forward in performance and reliability.
But I have to re-iterate what @garrettwp has stated … The strength of Vera is an open API that allows it’s users to push the product past what the company can do by itself.
It does offer some interesting potential for integrator types. The lads behind it are the original folks from BuLogics, the ZWave testing lab, spun out as ZonOff…builders of the Somfy TaHomA etc.
For $99, if there is any external access (URL control) then it theoretically could be connected to a real machine to provide the orchestration/extension functions (Raspi,cetc) without having to deal with the traditional ZWave licensing headaches to get access to locks etc.
Either way, I’m very interested to see the hackability of the physical Linksys hardware and/solution.
I think most of using Vera are early adopters and bleeding edge types that value the flexibility of Vera more than the ease of use.
That being said, for the mass market, reliability, ease of use and easy adoption trumps functionality and cost.
Most users only want simple scene and device control, not complex automation logic. I would argue that if any of these companies come up with a platform that does just 10 functions very simply and reliably in a cost effective manner, they will win.
Us bleeding edge tinkering types will always be more happy with flexible low cost platform… even at the expense of some reliability. Nobody else in my family cares about about an open API. They just want to push a button to make something work and get support if it does not.
So in my opinion, it is not Vera vs. XYZ, but XYZ filling a mass market need for 95% of the use cases, and Vera filling a different need. Hopefully Vera improves as new entrants come in, and more importantly the price of hardware decreases.
I disagree. I think many on this forum would prefer flexibility over reliability but I would argue then that Vera is just a toy. You cannot take Vera seriously for home automation or security without reliability. I would throw out my ADT alarm in a heartbeat if it wasn’t 100% reliable (I’d like to throw it out anyway based on cost but since my wife’s friend was murdered in a home invasion I will never be without all the security I can afford).
I would gladly give up some flexibility for better reliability. Right now I’m dealing with the fact that opening my Schlage lock no longer turns on the lights. I get a Vera Alert that the door is opened so I know Vera is receiving the signal, but Vera doesn’t turn on the lights, or it takes a long time. This is totally unacceptable.
Vera will never be more than a toy for tinkerers unless/until the reliability is significantly improved.
I think we agree more than we disagree. I specifically say “some reliability” and it is in a broad sense. In technology, as you increase flexibility, you generally decrease reliability. We are just given more tools to shoot ourselves in the foot.
I too have had a bunch of issues with my Zwave network. Not blaming EVERYTHING on Vera yet… as it could be the device firmware on thermostats and locks, or whatever else in combination. I value Vera because I can basically tie everything including the kitchen sink in to it… Nothing else I have seen at this price point gave me the option…
I compare Vera to the Android 2.0 days. People chose it for cost, and flexibility, not because it was the most complete and reliable platform. Remember those days of task managers and tons of FC’s ?
I hope that MCV is hard at work at making their system competitive with all the other ones out there so there is broader adoption beyond the tech masochists that some of us are. Maybe a partnership with a larger brand that can really invest in R&D/Manufacturing/Sales. It just seems MCV is too small to really move up at this point. They just don’t seem to have the staff to do sustaining + development.
Now that Belkin owns Linksys, I wonder how they will position this system vs. Wemo.
Good point.
I bet we will see more WeMo stuff, and possibly WeMo branded stuff that speaks ZWave.
Anyone notice how the WeMo Light Switch supports some automation via the app?
I too think we agree on a lot of things but I disagree with your statement “In technology, as you increase flexibility, you generally decrease reliability.” I have been an electrical engineer in the data communications and semiconductor fields for about 30 years now (holy crap, I’m getting old! :o). Some of the most flexible and complicated electronics gear in the world, the big iron Internet backbone routers, are also some of the most reliable. Same goes for the big telco switches and cable head-end equipment. Now I realize there are many orders of magnitude difference in cost between those systems and Vera but my point is just that reliability is not necessarily inversely proportional to complexity or flexibility. You can make something complex, flexible and reliable. You just have to have good enough engineering and the desire to produce quality.
Funny… We work in the same field, if not the same company . 
We are going off topic but I do want to make one last point. The biggest, most complex devices have the most bugs. More code, more bugs. However, selling a $2M backbone router with high margins and large support renewal streams is vastly different than a low volume niche consumer product that is < $200 I have a great deal of experience with the largest backbone devices. They are not bug free and they do fail. Just a properly designed network will make that failure transparent to the rest of the network.
Yes you can make something complex, flexible, and reliable, you just can’t do that cheap.
Yes, we definitely agree on this. My point was just that flexibility and reliability don’t have to be exclusive. I’d gladly pay more for Vera for a proportional increase in reliability (up to a point, of course).
Looks like the “Staples Connect” page is live ( http://www.staples.com/sbd/cre/marketing/staples-connect/ ) and they won’t be charging a monthy fee for the service.
They have a surprisingly wide variety of devices, many of which I haven’t seen on sale in the USA. Some of the more interesting items (e.g. the aeotec smart strip and the hub itself) are out of stock and the prices on all of the devices seem overpriced. Staples is notorious for coupon errors, so maybe there will be a sale on these sometime soon.
I’m glad there is no monthly fee.
I wonder how basic the hub will be. Their demos show more than basic on/off however. It shows goodbye scenes, etc. where actions happen after some other condition, such as:
Leave for the day
- Blinds close
- Lights turn off
- Doors lock after door closes
It is mainly #3 that I am curious about (setting up an action to occur after another action). That can be done with arming sensors, scene triggers, etc. but a nice GUI to do that for you would help!
As I posted on another thread, I have gone ahead and ordered the Staples system. My hope is to get it to somehow work with my existing Vera lite system to extend its abilities. No idea how that might work out yet, but we will see. I have read about people with 2 or more Vera working together, so I hope this is possible. Any suggestions or thoughts on this endeavor are appreciated. Thanks!
Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk 4
Having multiple vera’s work with each other is part of the design of Vera. It is built into the software to allow multiple Vera units work with each other. In order to get both the Staples system and Vera to work with each other, you’ll need to have access to some sort of api of the Staples unit to create a plugin for Vera. I am not sure this exists.
- Garrett
[quote=“garrettwp”]Having multiple vera’s work with each other is part of the design of Vera. It is built into the software to allow multiple Vera units work with each other. In order to get both the Staples system and Vera to work with each other, you’ll need to have access to some sort of api of the Staples unit to create a plugin for Vera. I am not sure this exists.
- Garrett[/quote]
Garrett,
Thank you for your comment. To be honest, the main reason I wish to remain with Vera in the loop is your absolutely fantastic app. The work you have done is top notch. The integration of voice activation and NFC are very useful.
Perhaps I should have done some more research before going ahead with the Staples system purchase, but my cost was very low so I figured I would take a shot. I am not savvy with the development of Vera plug in or getting access to api’s that aren’t published, but I am willing to play the role of a test subject to try out ideas that those more capable than I have to get this to work.
Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk 4