Routing issue (?)

Community Playground General Discussions
1

Hi all

I’m at my wits end with this one. Need some guidance.

I am using ui7, if relevant,Please reply with this in mind (as opposed to ui5). I have the latest firmware.

I have two categories of problems that may be related:

  1. I have a couple of nodes that are flaky. I wake up and they are simply dead. Pings show no response. If I plug and unplug them they often come back. When they come back they have ping performance of 100ms with 10 out of 10 successful, so it’s clearly not a marginal signal.

  2. I also have one node that typically only responds to 4 out of 10 pings and is generally always flaky. I can get “cannot contact device” or “error code 1” issues on occasion with these nodes as a result.

I have noticed that the neighbors are empty or just show “1” (scene controller) for these nodes. They aren’t directly close to the controller so this could be a problem. It seems like the mesh isn’t working.

What I’ve tried:

  1. First, I’ve tried update neighbor nodes. I get “received empty reponse”. What’s up with that? Hen, nothing changes.

  2. I’ve tried many reboots and many unpairs and re-pairs. No real change.

  3. I’ve made a new service for ManualRouting and have entered nodes such as “45-1” where node 45 is directly half way between the problematic node and node that never has an issue. I’ve verified that it appears in the variables page as I’ve set it up. However, This does absolutely nothing, it seems to ignore this field. No change.

  4. I’ve made sure there are no bogus device options set. In fact, no device options are set for any device.

  5. I’ve tired to manually change the neighbor nodes in the advanced tab. Even if I click the check box and enter the field, it’s often later deleted by Vera. In any case, even when it sticks around, it has no change. No help.

  6. I’ve played with automatically configure device off and on. No change.

  7. I’ve tried configure mode now, etc…none of this does anything.

All nodes are within a 60 foot radius of the controller, there are a total of about 45 nodes now.
This should be an easy setup.

Any suggestions? Thanks so much.

2

@mikoz, are those flaky nodes all the same kind of devices from the same manufacturer? Do you have more of the same somewhere in your mesh that do not behave the same?
Maybe the problem is whithin the devices (compatibility?) and not specifically with your mesh.

3

[quote=“Santos, post:2, topic:190590”]@mikoz, are those flaky nodes all the same kind of devices from the same manufacturer? Do you have more of the same somewhere in your mesh that do not behave the same?
Maybe the problem is whithin the devices (compatibility?) and not specifically with your mesh.[/quote]

The node that consistently shows poor ping performance is a ge 12729 switch. I’ve tried three of them, they all have the problem.

The nodes that sometimes don’t wake up after a healing overnight done automatically by Vera are intermatics. There are two. But again, when it happens,the neighbors list is empty, I am not so sure it’s the fault of the node.

Any tips from anyone ? This seems like something that should be possible to debug.

4

The empty neighbor list means that the device does not see(hear) any neighbors. This is probably due to poor mesh signal quality in that area. That might be due to not enough devices, obstructions, or even RF interference from other devices like baby monitors in the area. Also don’t discount the effects of metal gang boxes which will shield your Z-Wave devices and make the signals highly directional.

My first inclination is to recommend that you add intermediate nodes to improve the mesh in the deficient area. I like the GE/Jasco 45603 Appliance Module as a portable testing relay/router. Just remember to allow the network time to heal after plugging it in or moving it.

An alternative would be to move Vera, at least temporarily, closer to the switch to see if that changes anything. Again, remember to allow time for the network to heal after relocating Vera or any other nodes.

As you’ve found, manually specifying neighbors will not work. I don’t think that Vera can even write that information to the device, but even if a controller could, the device still would not be able to communicate with the neighbor.

You cannot hear me speaking. Even if I indicate in this message that I’m close and that you can hear me, you still can’t really hear me. This is analogous to manually specifying neighbors. Likewise, specifying a route through a “bogus” neighbor isn’t going to work either.

5

[quote=“Z-Waver, post:4, topic:190590”]The empty neighbor list means that the device does not see(hear) any neighbors. This is probably due to poor mesh signal quality in that area. That might be due to not enough devices, obstructions, or even RF interference from other devices like baby monitors in the area. Also don’t discount the effects of metal gang boxes which will shield your Z-Wave devices and make the signals highly directional.

My first inclination is to recommend that you add intermediate nodes to improve the mesh in the deficient area. I like the GE/Jasco 45603 Appliance Module as a portable testing relay/router. Just remember to allow the network time to heal after plugging it in or moving it.

An alternative would be to move Vera, at least temporarily, closer to the switch to see if that changes anything. Again, remember to allow time for the network to heal after relocating Vera or any other nodes.

As you’ve found, manually specifying neighbors will not work. I don’t think that Vera can even write that information to the device, but even if a controller could, the device still would not be able to communicate with the neighbor.

You cannot hear me speaking. Even if I indicate in this message that I’m close and that you can hear me, you still can’t really hear me. This is analogous to manually specifying neighbors. Likewise, specifying a route through a “bogus” neighbor isn’t going to work either.[/quote]

First, no metal boxes… only plastic. House is 10 years old… gone are the days of metal boxes, copper pipes, metal ducting, etc. :slight_smile:

Even nodes that are “good” often show no neighbors at all when they have this issue. Even using modules similar to what you mention.

I did allow for the heal, to my knowledge it happens every night and that’ why, when I wake up in the morning, it sometimes is “different”.

No baby monitors or such, just wifi 2.4ghz and 5ghz stuff. The only other RF is an ARLO netgear camera system (which itself is basically wifi) on the other side of house (the module that’s closest to ARLO has no issues) and a wireless fishtank lighting system… again, the modules that are closest to it seem to never have an issue.

How can I debug further? What tools are available?

6

I added a manual route to a door lock using the variable ManualRoute and the value of 9.4.0 representing the devices I wanted it to travel. It works just fine.

I remember my first setups of Vera with UI6 and shortly then UI7 were flaky for a while but my network has grown and now it’s much better with no issues. You stated you have a lot of devices but do those devices in the instructions indicate they act as routing, support command class, and security class? I bought my light switches by Leviton to ensure all 3 of those were supported. I think that has really helped my mesh network in my opinion and my Vera is in the back of the house with the bulk of my devices further away.

You could always try the hack antenna mod in this forum which basically is a DIY antenna extension on your Vera box. People report great reception/range by doing it.

Have you checked any zwave settings on the Vera UI? I can’t recall but there are a few to ensure you have them set. I can’t login to my Vera now to check though.

Have you check to see if these specific devices have known issues? If not a Vera community maybe with other HA communities to see if they report similar problems?

Have you checked any logs in the Vera? You could try a support ticket but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Did you change/adjust the minimum poll time values, wakeup values and so on for these devices?

7

[quote=“tomtcom, post:6, topic:190590”]I added a manual route to a door lock using the variable ManualRoute and the value of 9.4.0 representing the devices I wanted it to travel. It works just fine.

I remember my first setups of Vera with UI6 and shortly then UI7 were flaky for a while but my network has grown and now it’s much better with no issues. You stated you have a lot of devices but do those devices in the instructions indicate they act as routing, support command class, and security class? I bought my light switches by Leviton to ensure all 3 of those were supported. I think that has really helped my mesh network in my opinion and my Vera is in the back of the house with the bulk of my devices further away.

You could always try the hack antenna mod in this forum which basically is a DIY antenna extension on your Vera box. People report great reception/range by doing it.

Have you checked any zwave settings on the Vera UI? I can’t recall but there are a few to ensure you have them set. I can’t login to my Vera now to check though.

Have you check to see if these specific devices have known issues? If not a Vera community maybe with other HA communities to see if they report similar problems?

Have you checked any logs in the Vera? You could try a support ticket but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Did you change/adjust the minimum poll time values, wakeup values and so on for these devices?[/quote]

Manual Routing seems to have zero impact for me, it seems to ignore the field. However, your syntax is a bit different than what i listed, can you confirm it?

I am unaware of a single Zwave setting in UI7 that’s global in nature. UI5 seemed to have them, from what I have read. Can you elaborate on what settings you are referring to?

The devices are all repeaters, isn’t that all that is important here?

I have played with poll times… makes no difference.

8

See my screenshots. I am showing ManualRoute, zwave settings to look at, and AltUI network quality graph showing the dotted line representing the manualroute of 9.4.0.

In zwave settings there is the other advanced options. you could do a backup and try a reset network. I’m not sure of the effect of those things so something to research.

9

Does Manual Routing even work on the latest Firmware of UI7, I thought the newer z-wave firmware that was included with the latest few versions of UI7 replaced manual routing, network heals, Vera routing, and other pieces, even if legacy interfaces of the manual routing exist, that doesn’t mean that Vera is honoring it or doing anything with it.

10

Hi
That was my unsestandig too and explains why the option is ignored for me…the zwave chip is now “self sustaining”. Perhaps I’m wrong, I hope…

11

Hi all,

This seems like a basic question… does manual routing work… yes or no. This must be on the of the most basic questions that should have an easy answer…

12

Hi all,

This seems like a basic question… does manual routing work… yes or no. This must be on the of the most basic questions that should have an easy answer…[/quote]

After digging in, I believe the answer is no. While looking at my lock with the UI7 latest firmware, I see the ManualRoute present however AutoRoute is there too which most likely overrides it as it is populated.

13

Hi all,

This seems like a basic question… does manual routing work… yes or no. This must be on the of the most basic questions that should have an easy answer…[/quote]

After digging in, I believe the answer is no. While looking at my lock with the UI7 latest firmware, I see the ManualRoute present however AutoRoute is there too which most likely overrides it as it is populated.[/quote]

That’s awesome… so basically, when it screws up and gets the routing wrong, now there’s nothing that we can do about it… at all.

14

Hi all,

This seems like a basic question… does manual routing work… yes or no. This must be on the of the most basic questions that should have an easy answer…[/quote]

After digging in, I believe the answer is no. While looking at my lock with the UI7 latest firmware, I see the ManualRoute present however AutoRoute is there too which most likely overrides it as it is populated.[/quote]

That’s awesome… so basically, when it screws up and gets the routing wrong, now there’s nothing that we can do about it… at all.[/quote]

I “think” you could clear the AutoRoute value, click out of it so it saves then poll/update node and see if it corrects anything.

15

Hi all,

This seems like a basic question… does manual routing work… yes or no. This must be on the of the most basic questions that should have an easy answer…[/quote]

After digging in, I believe the answer is no. While looking at my lock with the UI7 latest firmware, I see the ManualRoute present however AutoRoute is there too which most likely overrides it as it is populated.[/quote]

That’s awesome… so basically, when it screws up and gets the routing wrong, now there’s nothing that we can do about it… at all.[/quote]

I “think” you could clear the AutoRoute value, click out of it so it saves then poll/update node and see if it corrects anything.[/quote]

There is no AutoRoute param I can see. Please clarify which parameter you are referring to.

I understand you’re not certain about the outcome.

16

[quote=“mikoz, post:15, topic:190590”]There is no AutoRoute param I can see. Please clarify which parameter you are referring to.

I understand you’re not certain about the outcome.[/quote]

Are all your devices currently working now?
Is there more then one with a routing problem and what devices are they?

17

Sorry, just finally noticed all new devices installed don’t use or create the autoroute variable after the firmware change. Those that were installed prior still have it but don’t use it I guess.

18

[quote=“integlikewhoa, post:16, topic:190590”][quote=“mikoz, post:15, topic:190590”]There is no AutoRoute param I can see. Please clarify which parameter you are referring to.

I understand you’re not certain about the outcome.[/quote]

Are all your devices currently working now?
Is there more then one with a routing problem and what devices are they?[/quote]

They work some days, not every day. It’s consistent with the magical automatic healing thst Vera does nightly I am thinking.

19

I think I wa put to roll out back the firmware, or throw the unit out the window…not sure which yet.

20

I think I wa put to roll out back the firmware, or throw the unit out the window…not sure which yet.[/quote]

Probley need a bigger mesh, but if you try and roll back youll need to also roll back the zwave firmware which i think vera will need to do.