Dear All,
I have recently entered the magic world of home automation and I have some questions regarding the implementation of a heating scene. I have the new Vera Edge (UI7) and a fibaro 4-1 sensor as well as a Fibaro relay 1x3 KW and Danfoss thermostatic heads. My idea was to use the temp sensor as a trigger to switch on the boiler and open the Danfoss heads. Using the scenes in UI7 this method doesn’t work, which means that the boiler switches on when trying to run the scene manually irrespectively of the temp sensor input. i.e. The boiler starts even if the temperature (as identified by the fibaro 4-1 temp sensor) is higher than the one set in the scene as a trigger.
Thanks in advance,
Nikos
Coming back to my previous messages, since none of you have responded, let me make it clearer? Is there any way to use the fibaro 3-1 temp sensor together with the danfoss TRV and a fibaro relay attached to the boiler? Or do I need a thermostat?
Nikos
Personally I would not trust my heating to a multisensor. I use a Horstmann HRT4-ZW (aka Secure SRT321) directly associated to the boiler switch. This continues to operate even if Vera is offline. I use Vera (with PLEG logic) to update the setpoint in the thermostat according to time and other information.
It should be possible to make it work with a multisensor and scenes, though. It may require you to add some Lua code to the scenes to control the conditions under which it runs. As you have seen, manually starting the scene bypasses the trigger logic. See Conditional Scene Execution for more information about this.
If the multisensor temperature triggers are not working, one approach is to have the scene run on a periodic schedule (maybe five minutes) and use conditional code to check the current temperature and take the appropriate actions.
Another, more robust, approach would be to use the Program Logic Event Generator (PLEG) plugin to implement the logic. See PLEG Basics for an introduction.
Finally there is/was a Virtual Thermostat plugin in the App store. I don’t know if this has been updated to work under UI7.
+1
You need to start with using a real zwave thermostat.
+1
You need to start with using a real zwave thermostat.[/quote]
I guess you mean that you RECOMMEND a thermostat, rather than NEED? There is no reason why he can’t use a multi sensor in this scenario, but there are certainly advantages to using a thermostat.
[quote=“npapan69, post:1, topic:185318”]Dear All,
I have recently entered the magic world of home automation and I have some questions regarding the implementation of a heating scene. I have the new Vera Edge (UI7) and a fibaro 4-1 sensor as well as a Fibaro relay 1x3 KW and Danfoss thermostatic heads. My idea was to use the temp sensor as a trigger to switch on the boiler and open the Danfoss heads. Using the scenes in UI7 this method doesn’t work, which means that the boiler switches on when trying to run the scene manually irrespectively of the temp sensor input. i.e. The boiler starts even if the temperature (as identified by the fibaro 4-1 temp sensor) is higher than the one set in the scene as a trigger.
Thanks in advance,
Nikos[/quote]
Hi Nikos
As per my post above, a thermostat is recommended and from what I’ve learnt quickly around here is to always accept advice from RexBeckett! That said what you’re looking to achieve should be possible, you just have to be aware that VeraEdge will be in total control of your heating and one thing you’ve probably learnt by now is that Vera isn’t perfect.
Whenever you have problems it’s always best to go back to basics. The fact that your scene turns the boiler on shows that the relay side is working perfectly. It’s the trigger which appears to be the problem. From what I understand your scene should trigger when the temperature sensor reaches a certain temperature. It’s highly likely that the sensor isn’t telling Vera about the changes in temperature. If you look at the manual which came with the sensor it should explain how to send the value back to the controller every X minutes. I advise trying this option (probably every 5-10 minutes to preserve battery life) because experience shows me that the “update controller when temperature changes by X degrees” isn’t always reliable on those sensors. During this testing period, rathing than turning on the boiler, get the scene to turn on a light, send a notification, log file or something else trivial. It will be easier to identify when the scene is executing and you don’t really want to keep sending on/off signals to your expensive boiler. Once you have the trigger working as you’d like you can move on to controlling the boiler.
Good luck.
Thank you very much for the tips and suggestions. Let me elaborate a little bit more the situation. I live in a two floor house were in the ground level there is no thermostat and in the 1st level there is a conventional (non z-wave compatible) thermostat. My plan was to make the ground floor independed from the 1st floor. Thats why I installed TRVs (LC) in all radiators of the ground floor and attached a relay on the thermostat in order to control the boiler. From your suggestions it would be more reliable to use thermostats rather than temp sensors to communicate with the relay in order to switch on and off the boiler when the desired temperature is reached.The question is that in order to make 2 independed heating zones (ground floor and 1st floor) do I need 2 thermostats (one for each floor) and 2 relays? And if yes shall I associate those as pairs? And another problem that I have is with the Danfoss TRVs which are not transmitting their state (set temp) to Vera unless I wake them up manually.
Nikos
The question is that in order to make 2 independed heating zones (ground floor and 1st floor) do I need 2 thermostats (one for each floor) and 2 relays? And if yes shall I associate those as pairs?
The answer is a slightly tentative yes. They would not really be independent unless they were controlled by separate motorized valves.
If you have two thermostats you should associate them to separate relays. Otherwise the last one to send a command will override the other. Some Z-Wave thermostats resend commands periodically which would make it even worse. Also some 'stats use variable duty-cycle switching to simulate proportional control…
And another problem that I have is with the Danfoss TRVs which are not transmitting their state (set temp) to Vera unless I wake them up manually.
Z-Wave TRVs are a whole different subject. You will find several threads discussing their issues and some potential solutions.
In theory you should be able to control them as if you had several independent zones but this is apparently a lot harder to achieve in practice. I believe that there have been some successes when members changed the TRVs to mains powered so they respond to commands quickly.
In most homes your second floor will require a shorter boiler run than the first floor. So in practice the TRV will probably work well just cutting off the heat early when the boiler runs.
You would not normally use TRVs on the radiators that directly influence the thermostat. You can’t have true zone heating without separate returns from each zone, and valves to control each zone. But this extent of control usually isn’t needed.
Ideally in your setup the thermostat would be in the coldest regularly used area of the house (the area with the most heat loss). In the other areas the TRVs would then often cut off hot water early during a boiler run. Usually it’s not a problem to balance the second floor, as the first floor is also a heat source for the second.
Your boiler system likely wasn’t designed to be turned on to service one radiator. You don’t want to do that without the approval of a boiler-certified plumber.
If you had a true multizone system, you would still have a real HVAC thermostat in each zone. Then Vera could control each thermostat.
When you get a real zwave thermostat, be sure to set up high/low temperature alerts (in case things go horribly wrong). If you have a newer system, and uneven heating during spring/fall, consider an outside thermostat that can set boiler water temp. It can sometimes be hard to balance a system for the full heating system at just one boiler water temp.
During Spring/fall I manually set my boiler at 140F, down from the normal 180F. This prevents overheating some rooms. When I eventually get a new system I will buy a module that does this automatically by measuring outside temp. But note that there is usually a recommended minimum temp for a boiler. Too cool can create condensation problems on some types of unit.
Thank you both guys for your valuable suggestions and comments. Probably I will come back to you when installing the thermostats in case these is any problem.
Nikos