Need suggestion to control pool heater

Community Playground General Discussions
1

Hi all,

It is time for me to replace my pool heater (in ground pool with jacuzzi). This time, I would like to replace a system (heater) that would allow me to control with my Vera.
I need help, suggestion, and pointer to where to look for these information (z-wave devices or other interfaces ie RS232, etc) and specially experiences from people who have done this.

Thank you so much in advance.
JTRAN.

2

Hey JTran,
I am both a pool service guy and ZWave fan. What I have installed up until now at a few locations is an Intermatic CA3750 to simply manage the power to the Heat pump and that works for that application. As the CA3750 has two channels, both controlled in Vera, you can use the other channel to power on your filter pump as well. All that being said, the CA3750’s are no longer being made that I am aware.

However, here in May, Intermatic is supposed to be releasing the 953 pool controller and 653 remote which is all Zwave compliant. It is unknown as to how this controller can be viewed and managed by Vera, but I want to help MCV get to that point if at all possible.

This unit controls 5 separate relays and has plug-in support for RS485 communication. The zwave antenna is detachable and can be extended over CAT5/6 cable if needed. As of now you need an additional Intermatic module for switching your actuators from spa to pool mode but Intermatic plans to include that in the model they will release in 2011.

The 653 remote can alter your pool temp manually, have pages for any additional Zwave devices, and control all of the RS485 devices as well. Also the remote is waterproof and can go swimming with you :slight_smile:

3

HI
your could use a ge 45604 with a Contactor furnas 42FE35AF106 110/120 V COIL.

4

Thank you for the information. I will check on GE and Intermatic. I may need a lot of help here.

MCoulter, is it ok if you could give me your personal email address? I looked at the PE953 and may have more detail question. I also found few negative reviews on the part, so I am still undecided…

Thanks much,

JTRAN.

5

Jtran,

I think I opened up my email now in the profile so you can catch me that way… no problem.

Are you sure you saw a negative review on the 953? It hasn’t had any public release yet that I am aware of… and believe me I am contacting the main guy at Intermatic constantly to know the minute the units are released.

Talk to you later.

6

I’ve also been very interested in managing my pool’s heater with Vera. The biggest problem I’ve run into, is finding a Temperature sensor which will report water temperature to Vera via Z-Wave.

I’ve already deployed a z-wave/Vera solution to manage my pool’s pump motor, that was fairly inexpensive (< $100 ). I’m looking for a similarly inexpensive solution to manage the pool heater. Looks like the Intermatic 953 pool controller is NOT going to be cheap. If I had to guess, this system will cost in excess of $600 and probably closer to $1,200 - $1,500.

I just want a $60 water temperature sensor which uses Z-Wave. Controlling the heater’s on/off mode is easy after that.

7

I didn’t readily find a price (though their other products are not very expensive), but would this do the trick for you:
http://www.fortrezz.com/3.html

?

I have no experience with this model, or any others in this line, but it seems to fill the need.

8

I’ve talked to the Fortrezz folks and they say that none of their current models have submersible temperature sensors.

One of their lead techs said that they were working with another manufacturer to develop a water temp sensor with Z-wave and that it might be available some time around the end of June ~ Beginning of July.

I still can’t believe that this would be the first water temperature sensor on the market.

9

Update on pricing regarding the Intermatic PE653 Pool Controller–

We got a direct price quote from Intermatic today for $535. For this price we get the 5 relay controller, the waterproof remote (PE953 - can control 5 additional z-wave scenes), two valve actuators, and a water temperature sensor all in a 100 amp (8 circuit breaker) outdoor enclosure.

Still pricey if you just want to run a heater but for anyone needing a whole system controller this is a cheap way to do it compared to other systems.

The downside is that the unit needs some interface tweaking by MCV to be usable on the VERA.

10

I was able to get my hands on a couple of these Intermatic PE 653 / PE 953 controllers. I have yet to get enough information from either MCV or Intermatic to be able to do anything on Z-Wave except turn on and off relay output 1.

I have them connected on my network if MCV would like to use my system to get more from them. One thing I have yet to find is a submersible / well temperature z-wave sensor. It would sure be nice if MCV could get to the temperature values in the 653.

This is Inetrmatic’s Version 1 of this controller and there are issues that need to be fixed / updated.

11

I also have some of these units already. They are planning newer features but I haven’t run across any issues yet.

I have setup a ticket with MCV and also have my unit online for testing but I am not sure when they will get around to it.

I have also talked to someone at Schlage that tells me their engineers are planning to have a pool solution available for their Zwave Controller but cannot tell me a time frame. I believe Schlage still has issues with handling multi-instance devices.

I hope to hear about someone making it work soon.

12

I’m very interested in the Intermatic solution. I have a 3750 running my filter pump but would love to hear more. Please do keep us posted. For MCV–please support this controller if at all possible.

13

ksquared, NovaIceman and I have shared some notes and he has gotten some feedback from the Intermatic side of things and he is doing a little testing to see how much further. I am still not sure if MCV is actively working on this or if it is just in a queue. But I will continue to post back to this thread as I know any more.

14

I’m a total newbie to z-wave and pool automation, though I’ve been following this thread for a while. I just purchased the PE653 and PE953. Haven’t installed it yet. I’ll keep you up to date on how it goes, though it may take a week or so, since this will be a background task and I had to order some additional parts.

I purchased it because I wanted to replace an old compool cp-2000 that came with the house, and is starting to act up. I’ve decided to go with z-wave for other home automation, so this seemed like a good fit (actually the only one I found). Probably should have done more research, but I’m an engineer and tend to be an early adopter, so I figured I could make it work. And it was less than $400 for the PE653 controller and PE953 hand-held remote. My pool service guy kept pushing the Jandy system at 3x the cost. I would have gone with it, but he didn’t know how to connect it to other z-wave controls.

A few things I’ve learned about the system (through conversations with Intermatic customer support)

  1. It needs an additional module to control the valve actuators. They recommend the P4243ME. I didn’t buy this originally. I found it for about $180 additional, and it is on the UPS truck somewhere.
  2. I have 3 actuators in my current system. Two for pool/spa (I guess pump and return), and one for solar heat panels vs. gas heat. The manual for the PE653 doesn’t talk at all about solar heat, though it shows a connection for a solar temp sensor. There is also support for a freeze/air temp sensor. After calling customer support, apparently the PE653 controller doesn’t support the concept of a solar and non-solar heater together (right now, at least - they plan an upgrade in the future - indicated it would be both a SW and HW upgrade). They said that most people leave their solar system on a separate contol system for the pool and never really touch it. Even my cp-2000, which is circa mid-80’s, had a switch that selected between “solar heat only”, “gas heat only”, or “solar preferred”. This was a slight disappointment. However, for me, I rarely use the gas heater, and only for the spa, so I figure I can set something up in z-wave to turn that on when the solar temp sensor is too low. My solar heater does produce a lot of heat, and actually the pool and spa have gotten too hot if I leave the solar on continuously, so I will need to find a solution, or handle it manually.
  3. spa-side remote: I have an existing system that has a wired 3-button spa-side remote. Doesn’t work, but near as I can tell, it was to control a) spa jets, b) lights, and c) filter??. The PE653 doesn’t have support for such a concept as a hard-wired button. Customer support recommended that it would be cheaper and more convenient to just use the hand-held remote. Probably true, but it would have been nice to have support for the existing switches. An on-line manual for the PE4243ME suggests that it might support this, so I am holding out hope. On the other hand, the wireless remote will probably be better anyways.

I haven’t deployed any z-wave controllers yet, though I’ve decided that is the way to go. I’ve also purchased some Lutron switches and fan controllers. I’m currently trying to decide if I should get something like MCV or just rely on the PE953 (which supposedly can control everything z-wave) or go to something like homeseer, which has a lot of programmability and can probably do exactly what I need (give enough time, which I don’t have :slight_smile: )

15

I’m in a similar situation and would like to control my pool/spa heater from a remote location. I know I can use the Intermatic CA3750 to turn the heater on/off but I have been trying to figure out how I can adjust the pool and spa heater.

I recently found this Jandy product:
http://www.jandy-downloads.com/AETi_Control_Quick_Guide.PDF

It says it uses a RS 485 for remote control. I’m not sure what exactly that is, but I’m guessing that I’d still need a go-between for the RS 485 and a Z-wave controller in order for Vera to find it.

Any suggestions or comments?

Thanks,
Byron

16

Byron,
I don’t have one of these, but if it has a RS-485 interface, then you’d need the following to get it hooked up to Vera:

[ul][li]a) an USB → RS-485 adapter, connected to Vera[br]This is just a different type of high-speed serial interface.[/li]
[li]b) a long bit of RS-485 cable (4x wire) running from Vera to the Board with the AquaLink[/li]
[li]c) Documentation on what “commands” the AquaLink takes[/li]
[li]d) Someone to code a bit of Luup code (a Plugin) that “maps” those commands to Vera as either Thermostat controls or On/Off (Switch) controls or a combination…[/li]
[li]e) A way to test all the above before you purchase the beast ;-)[/li][/ul]

No ZWave would be required, since Vera can use Luup (Lua code) to handle a plugin which would talk natively to the device (over it’s RS-485 interface)… which someone would have to write.

Typically, with item (c) and (e) above, this hasn’t been that hard to do. It’s already got a few examples of “similar” Luup-based Plugins that talk to non-ZWave things.