MIOS Acquisition

Community Playground General Discussions
#81

[quote=“melih, post:60, topic:199656”]We very much value the development ecosystem and all the good work developers have done with their plugins… We are trying to see how we can increase their value in this ecosystem…
Is there any specific plugins you think we should take and integrate natively? Maybe we should start a post to get everyone to vote ?[/quote]

Plugins to integrate natively? Perhaps these three -

Logitech Harmony Hub plugin for Vera is excellent and very powerful.
Philips Hue plugin which I believe is now managed by the Vera team, there is also an improved Alternative version done by a 3rd party.
PLEG For more complex logic operations within Vera that native Vera scenes simply cannot do.

This is a list of plugins I am dependent on and that are installed on my VeraPlus unit:

Program Logic Core PLC (For more complex logic operations within Vera that native Vera scenes cannot do)
Program Logic Event Generator PLEG (For more complex logic operations within Vera that native Vera scenes cannot do)
Squeezebox Control (Legacy - I used this for connecting my Logitech Squeezebox audio devices in to Vera)
DLNA Media Controller (Currently partly broken - Used to link Kodi HTPCs and other DLNA devices into Vera for basic playback transport controls)
UPnP Event Proxy
WOLPlusPing (Simple WOL plugin can be used to turn on / off PCs etc).
Kodi Remote (Links Kodi HTPC current playback status into Vera, dim lights on play and brighten on pause etc)
Day or Night (Simple plugin shows a Day or Night button as current, can be used in logic)
MultiSwitch (Plugin with 8 virtual switches to program logic against)
VeraAlerts (Notification plugin - email, mobile app alerts, TTS announcements etc)
CurrentCost EnviR Energy Monitor (Integrates the CurrentCost Electric Energy monitor in to Vera)
ImperiHome (Links Vera to the Imperihome mobile control app for TTS announcements and more)
RGB Controller (Plugin for RGBW modules like Fibaro and others for improved functionality in Vera)
Philips Hue 2 (Plugin for Philips Hue bridge integration)
Countdown timer (A simple count down timer plugin, used with my alarm setup for door entry, give us time to disarm the house)
Harmony Hub Control (Logitech Harmony plugin most excellent!)
Wunderground Weather Plugin (Adds some weather devices into Vera Current Temp / High Low Temp / Windspeed / Humidity)
Magic Home Wifi LED Control (Plugin to control cheap WIFI RGB LED controllers, use it with some LED strips)

#82

While I agree, the functionalities of PLEG really should just be built in already (and now seems like the time to make that happen). We really shouldn’t need to pay for a plug-in to be able to have fine control over the system.[/quote]

Totally agree, that kind of functionality should be built in, in a much more user friendly way. My brain doesn’t understand PLEG UI logic at all, so I write LUA code instead to do what I want. Shouldn’t be necessary.

#83

[quote=“Thorden, post:80, topic:199656”]So, I do not understand the focus on getting the controller price down. It is a small part of the total cost, how can that be important? Are you looking at another business model all together? Subscription based? Ok, that’s when I leave the building for sure. Rather pay $400 for the controller, easily!
I can understand it if you also plan to launch a bunch of cheaper devices. It is the device cost that is crazy, not the controller.[/quote]

I totally agree with this, I cannot see the point in buying a $20 controller hub when your spending $100’s or more likely $1000’s on the devices to link in to it.

I would be happy to pay up to $400 max for a decent controller. Ideally I have been happy paying around ?150 GBP for my VeraPlus what’s that in dollars? $190 odd.

Why cheap out on the controller hardware / cost, if its not gonna be up to the job ?

Great if you can sell my a $20 controller that is as good as a $200 one but I doubt it.

#84

[quote=“sivaprasath, post:52, topic:199656”]I am totally against the subscription model for Vera. Vera’s selling point is (As per the website www.getvera.com)

NO MONTHLY FEES. NO CONTRACTS. NO HASSLES.
WHY PAY ANOTHER MONTHLY BILL THAT YOU DON?T NEED? THE ONGOING FEES FROM OUR COMPETITORS ADD UP QUICKLY AND COST YOU BIG TIME. WITH VERA, THERE ARE NO MONTHLY FEES ? JUST EVERYDAY BENEFITS![/quote]

Im a huge supporter of this model too, It’s the reason I bought my Vera Plus, that and it still works if Australia’s tin-can broadband network fails when it rains (which it does a lot).

#85

[quote=“zedrally, post:61, topic:199656”]PLEG:
without doubt he single most valuable PI available.[/quote]

I’m in IT (ex server admin who still likes to tinker) and I found PLEG to be an incomprehensible, user hostile pile of junk - I actually found building my own HAC using Hass.io several orders of magnitude easier than learning PLEG … and that involves editing half a dozen YAML files to get anything done!

PLEG is a great example of when programmers dont understand how to make a user friendly UI - there’s just no excuse for it these days imo.

#86

[quote=“dJOS, post:85, topic:199656”][quote=“zedrally, post:61, topic:199656”]PLEG:
without doubt he single most valuable PI available.[/quote]

I’m in IT (ex server admin who still likes to tinker) and I found PLEG to be an incomprehensible, user hostile pile of junk - I actually found building my own HAC using Hass.io several orders of magnitude easier than learning PLEG … and that involves editing half a dozen YAML files to get anything done!

PLEG is a great example of when programmers dont understand how to make a user friendly UI - there’s just no excuse for it these days imo.[/quote]

I don’t know about this, I am terrible at writing code but with PLEG which I agree does have a learning curve, however I am now able to setup some quite complex logic operations to suit my needs that otherwise I would not have been able to do.

#87

[quote=“cw-kid, post:86, topic:199656”][quote=“dJOS, post:85, topic:199656”][quote=“zedrally, post:61, topic:199656”]PLEG:
without doubt he single most valuable PI available.[/quote]

I’m in IT (ex server admin who still likes to tinker) and I found PLEG to be an incomprehensible, user hostile pile of junk - I actually found building my own HAC using Hass.io several orders of magnitude easier than learning PLEG … and that involves editing half a dozen YAML files to get anything done!

PLEG is a great example of when programmers dont understand how to make a user friendly UI - there’s just no excuse for it these days imo.[/quote]

I don’t know about this, I am terrible at writing code but with PLEG which I agree does have a learning curve, however I am now able to setup some quite complex logic operations to suit my needs that otherwise I would not have been able to do.[/quote]

I was more confused after reading the manual than before when I’d just had a poke around the UI.

I’m using node-red on hassio and was up and running after watching a video.

#88

[quote=“simonk83, post:65, topic:199656”]Hi melih,

Can’t speak for others, but I’m glad this is happening. I’ve been using Vera for years, and while most of the time it does what I need, I really don’t like using it and I don’t really trust it. It always feels like it’s hanging on by a hair and could crash and burn any second. And it’s always felt like this. It’s always been pretty flaky, the UI has always been basic and honestly pretty ugly, and I generally just never feel confident that things will actually work when I want them to. As such I’ve basically moved over to HomeAssistant and use that to manage all my vera related stuff. HA isn’t without it’s problems, but it’s constantly evolving and innovating, something which can’t be said for Vera.

It’s long overdue for something like this to happen, and I hope the new blood and resources can bring these products (to be fair the hardware seems fine, it’s just the software) up to scratch and modernise everything a bit.

I’m a Ubiquiti user, so I’ve been completely spoiled on the software/UI side since switching all my networking gear over to them. It’s a pleasure to use, but I always feel like I’m back in the 80’s on Geocities website when messing with my Vera stuff :smiley:

Looking forward to seeing what you guys can do, and fingers crossed it’s finally a positive revamp for the Vera software.[/quote]

We will change all that! Just matter of time…do you like the new UI8 proposal?

#89

[quote=“Forzaalfa, post:67, topic:199656”]@Melih:

How will the two brands merge? eZLO and MiOS/VERA seems to be competitors, will both be kept as brands?

The intention to my question is: Will the Vera framework will stay backward compatible to existing work (plugins, etc), or will the framework change to an extent that a lot of the work is lost?

A merger could mean that a company is bought, proprietary rights is aquired, and the product is shut down… It doesnt seem to be the intention here, but i’d still like to know. :slight_smile:

I think a lot of good could come from this. Good luck!

Edit: By the way, I’d like to see native support for RFXtrx433, as Vera have no 433mhz interface on-board.[/quote]

Mios is the platform…Ezlo and Vera are both controllers…We’ll always try to make things backward compatible as much as possible.
We love Vera/Mios and its people and its users…we want to make it better and make it bigger!

Ezlo Platform Z-Wave supported Command Classes & Devices
#90

Program Logic Event Generator (PLEG) (for real automation)
DSC Alarm Panel Plugin (for alarm system integration)
EventWatcher (for system monitoring - for the love of god why aren’t tools like this native?)
VeraAlerts (for more valuable user notification options than native)[/quote]

Seems the original comment is gone?

At any rate, MiOS can’t “take” these. They are the works of others. If they want them they need to pay for them and bring on the plugin developer under contract to maintain and improve it.[/quote]

Of course! All of this would only be done cooperation and compensation with the original developers!

What is the discontinuance roadmap for current Vera system?
#91

Btw, in my surprise at the ownership change and impressive engagement levels you’ve brought to the company, I completely forgot to say Welcome! I really wish you all the success possible with Vera - it has huge potential to be the leading Consumer HAC if the right decisions are made.

Please dont move away from the Local controller model though, this is a key strength of the Vera platform - not having to rely on cloud services is why many of us bought Vera HAC’s in the first place.

#92

[quote=“dJOS, post:85, topic:199656”][quote=“zedrally, post:61, topic:199656”]PLEG:
without doubt he single most valuable PI available.[/quote]

I’m in IT (ex server admin who still likes to tinker) and I found PLEG to be an incomprehensible, user hostile pile of junk - I actually found building my own HAC using Hass.io several orders of magnitude easier than learning PLEG … and that involves editing half a dozen YAML files to get anything done!

PLEG is a great example of when programmers dont understand how to make a user friendly UI - there’s just no excuse for it these days imo.[/quote]

Thanks, that is exactly how I feel, but never dared to say it. I hold a degree in CS and it has been my occupation for 30 years, but I don’t understand PLEG. Just figured that the logic in the UI had to be made for a different kind of people, PLC or hardware designers or something I don’t understand. So I find writing code much easier. I use Node Red on a regular basis, and have no issues with Hass.io either. I have one scene in PLEG that I copied from the forum. It works, and I think I know why, but not quite sure.

I totally understand why people love PLEG, since that kind of logic is a big, missing gap in Vera. That’s why most of my ~80 scenes have code in them. Vera need to offer this kind of logic, as they can’t rely on people writing code if they want to enter a mass market. But it needs to be a lot more intuitive and user friendly than PLEG, or they will miss the target completely.

HomeSeer is probably the most mature and stable platform out there, used by advanced and demanding people, as well as unexperienced ones. But their GUI is far from perfect, to be very polite. If Vera could manage their level of functionality, device support and stability, and offer a modern UI on top, we have a winner! I really hope this will become true.

I agree that the mobile app is what people use on a daily basis, so it needs to be completely redesigned. I don’t use it at all myself, since ImperiHome is superior for my needs. It combines several systems that I use in one UI, Vera is just one of them. I don’t believe creating something like that should be a task for Vera. They need to create a simple but responsive and nice app for the useres that just have Vera to manage.
The ultimate goal for me is automation anyway, so 99% of the time I use the ImperiHome app, it is just to check status.

#93

[quote=“Thorden, post:92, topic:199656”][quote=“dJOS, post:85, topic:199656”][quote=“zedrally, post:61, topic:199656”]PLEG:
without doubt he single most valuable PI available.[/quote]

I’m in IT (ex server admin who still likes to tinker) and I found PLEG to be an incomprehensible, user hostile pile of junk - I actually found building my own HAC using Hass.io several orders of magnitude easier than learning PLEG … and that involves editing half a dozen YAML files to get anything done!

PLEG is a great example of when programmers dont understand how to make a user friendly UI - there’s just no excuse for it these days imo.[/quote]

Thanks, that is exactly how I feel, but never dared to say it. I hold a degree in CS and it has been my occupation for 30 years, but I don’t understand PLEG. Just figured that the logic in the UI had to be made for a different kind of people, PLC or hardware designers or something I don’t understand. So I find writing code much easier. I use Node Red on a regular basis, and have no issues with Hass.io either. I have one scene in PLEG that I copied from the forum. It works, and I think I know why, but not quite sure.

I totally understand why people love PLEG, since that kind of logic is a big, missing gap in Vera. That’s why most of my ~80 scenes have code in them. Vera need to offer this kind of logic, as they can’t rely on people writing code if they want to enter a mass market. But it needs to be a lot more intuitive and user friendly than PLEG, or they will miss the target completely.[/quote]

Yeah I’m honestly not sure why more folk dont provide that feedback, there’s just so many ways PLEG could be made user friendly, instead it’s user hostile.

I’m learning Node-Red atm myself, it’s broadly pretty straight forward and being visual makes the learning curve much shallower.

#94

My top wishes would be

  1. Stability - cut the engine in multiple pieces so something breaking does not take the whole vera offline or cause a full restart

  2. Repeatability - same action should end up with the same result every time IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME - most issues I’ve had with automation (by looking at how non-technical people around me use it) is the irregular duration for things, If pushing a button does something in the 2-3 second range it’s not acceptable to sometimes take 10 seconds - only causes confusion and frustation. I’d rather have the action take one extra second always, than fluctuate all the time

  3. Websocket or mqtt (or anything else that can have a single connection for multiple streams of data and with no polling)

  4. Https / ssl / tls on the local controller, even if it’s self signed

  5. Api keys or firewall/whitelist/blacklist for the api so i don’t have to vlan vera to secure it (most people won’t do anything like it)

  6. An option to turn off MiOS cloud service integration (and disable anything related to it), or to select only the features I want

  7. No more restarts every X time - this is basically wish #0 but I would write #0 a hundred times…

1 Like
#95

I see allot of mentions about pleg and a few about reactor but what about rules engine in altui? It’s a graphical method of creating some quite complex automations by just drag n drop. I believe it’s more powerful than native scenes (and reactor/delaylight) and much simpler than pleg , although probably not as powerful (I have never tried pleg myself as everything I have conceived I can do with rules engine)

#96

I agree with much others have said. I have stuck with Vera rather than jumping ship but it has always been frustratingly close to being really goes, but not quite getting there. I do think the focus on keeping it cheap has hampered it making those quite small but critical steps to be really good and therefore fulfill its incredible market potential. For me a little more cost up front or a small monthly subscription would not matter in exchange for the big extras achievable. IFTTT integration is an example where, because of not being prepared the pay up-front fee, this has never arrived. Many of us offered to pay to get it.

My top 4 wishes are:-

  1. Native 433 MHz device integration. I have always used RFXTRX433 but it is an awkward integration. The devices are so much cheaper. For instance I buy automated plug sockets for GBP5.00 whereas. Z-Wave would be GBP35.00 upwards
  2. Complete the bi-directional IFTTT channel. I use outbound but additional g Inbound would expand the Vera HA ecosystem enormously at no cost
  3. Simplify making multi-condition scenes possible without using PLEG
  4. Make creating data logging easy. Such as for energy usage. Output to industry standards such as XLS or CSV. I have never managed to make any plug-in work

Good luck in taking MIOS forward. It has so much potential to smash all the opposition out of the park, if only it would invest more

#97

Welcome Melih!
An important part of your recipe for success will be automated regression tests, and thousands of them. Hopefully you have that included in your resource budget. As your developer heads increase, a continuous build system will certainly help achieve a 6 month release cycle if so desired.

P.S.
I locked my system in Ui5 because it is Rock solid and I am TOTALLY happy with it’s solid operation. Would love to have more modern day features but it has a task and I never have to “dork” with the system…it just works! Plus, I don’t have time to dork with it if I had to.

Good luck and will be checking in every few months to see progress
/Z/

#98

Btw, in my surprise at the ownership change and impressive engagement levels you’ve brought to the company, I completely forgot to say Welcome! I really wish you all the success possible with Vera - it has huge potential to be the leading Consumer HAC if the right decisions are made.

Please dont move away from the Local controller model though, this is a key strength of the Vera platform - not having to rely on cloud services is why many of us bought Vera HAC’s in the first place.[/quote]

Thank you!

Most definitely, local controller is a much needed functionality. We aim to be a platform company, as such we must service different use cases and profiles. Local controller is an important use case for us. We will strengthen it further.

#99

[quote=“aPL, post:94, topic:199656”]My top wishes would be

  1. Stability - cut the engine in multiple pieces so something breaking does not take the whole vera offline or cause a full restart

  2. Repeatability - same action should end up with the same result every time IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME - most issues I’ve had with automation (by looking at how non-technical people around me use it) is the irregular duration for things, If pushing a button does something in the 2-3 second range it’s not acceptable to sometimes take 10 seconds - only causes confusion and frustation. I’d rather have the action take one extra second always, than fluctuate all the time

  3. Websocket or mqtt (or anything else that can have a single connection for multiple streams of data and with no polling)

  4. Https / ssl / tls on the local controller, even if it’s self signed

  5. Api keys or firewall/whitelist/blacklist for the api so i don’t have to vlan vera to secure it (most people won’t do anything like it)

  6. An option to turn off MiOS cloud service integration (and disable anything related to it), or to select only the features I want

  7. No more restarts every X time - this is basically wish #0 but I would write #0 a hundred times…[/quote]

There is local code and cloud code…(at very basic level)…

The dissection has already started…
We already have a plan to move the cloud into a micro-services architecture…this is the best way for cloud for now…
for the local code (eg: code running in the hardware)…hmm…dunno where to start…bear with us…you will have the best is all i can say…but first we will make sure it runs smoothly then we will change the architecture to be a scaleable one…we are on it!

1 Like
#100

[quote=“adamhay, post:96, topic:199656”]I agree with much others have said. I have stuck with Vera rather than jumping ship but it has always been frustratingly close to being really goes, but not quite getting there. I do think the focus on keeping it cheap has hampered it making those quite small but critical steps to be really good and therefore fulfill its incredible market potential. For me a little more cost up front or a small monthly subscription would not matter in exchange for the big extras achievable. IFTTT integration is an example where, because of not being prepared the pay up-front fee, this has never arrived. Many of us offered to pay to get it.

My top 4 wishes are:-

  1. Native 433 MHz device integration. I have always used RFXTRX433 but it is an awkward integration. The devices are so much cheaper. For instance I buy automated plug sockets for GBP5.00 whereas. Z-Wave would be GBP35.00 upwards
  2. Complete the bi-directional IFTTT channel. I use outbound but additional g Inbound would expand the Vera HA ecosystem enormously at no cost
  3. Simplify making multi-condition scenes possible without using PLEG
  4. Make creating data logging easy. Such as for energy usage. Output to industry standards such as XLS or CSV. I have never managed to make any plug-in work

Good luck in taking MIOS forward. It has so much potential to smash all the opposition out of the park, if only it would invest more[/quote]

Thank you. We have more than doubled the engineering resources already. You will see a huge positive change.

What is the discontinuance roadmap for current Vera system?