I have an honest question (no flames please). I am in the process of selecting a HA system and am torn between VeraLite or SmartThings. In looking at the sites, it seems like Verde is not that active anymore (last official announcement on forum was 03/2013…last blog posting on forum is 03/2012). I don’t know if they are putting most of their attention on new products, become lax in updating their blogs/announcements to the public, or struggling to survive. On flip side, SmartThings seems to be actively updating their site, hitting the market hard, and adding more modern integration into their system, such as IFTTT. So is Verde still an active company and good option moving forward? If so, what is the cause for lack of communication indicating such between them and the public?
1.000.000 dollar question…
They are in the process of a beta for a new firmware. While they aren’t the fastest company in the world, they are still active. Also these forums are for the USERS at the USERS request. MCV doesn’t frequent them very often and it was made clear that they would not have a huge presence on the forums when they created it for the users. I realize that it is not plastered everywhere, so this is just for anyone’s edification who happens upon this post.
Also, Their facebook page is supposed to be pretty active, though they don’t specifically mention the Vera a lot. Their home page has also changed recently to “getVera” which is the start of a whole new branding for them.
Lastly, You have to understand that MCV, I do believe, has a business doing HA OEM devices using MIOS. Vera shares this, but we are a small part of their business. We pay very little for our devices in comparison to some other, We don’t pay a monthly fee for their server usage (for remote access), and the system in and of itself is pretty extensible (though a little lacking in the resources department…mainly memory).
I’m not sure about SmartThings. I don’t know much about it. I know they don’t charge, but if you read their TOS, they say the reserve the right to charge you for their services (it could very well be that MCV has a similar clause). I don’t know if they have a plugin system or not. Much of what makes the Vera great are the plugins: PLEG/PLTS, Sonos, Nest, Weather, Different Proximity/Geofence ones… and the list goes on. Some smart Tvs are supported, someone is working on getting the Logitech Ulimate working, it’s just crazy. If it’s controllable via the network (IP), then a plugin exists or could be created for one. Using the Arduino plugin you can create yoru own sensors using it’s own network. I know that the Vera supports the EnOcean devices with a dongle. They also mentioned that they will be supporting zigbee soon (I’ll believe it when it happens).
BAsically, MCV is not fast, but they are there. I’ve never had too much trouble contacting support when I needed them. They are pretty fast at resolving issue if they can.
However, some issues are new device support. Since the protocols are so keeply embedded in their firmware, adding new z-wave devices sometimes takes a firmware update, which can be a pain. I don’t know how SmartThings handles this. Perhaps they are better at it.
Please allow me to start the firestorm… 
Vera is, in my opinion, the most advanced/complete offering in the sub $1,000 controller range. Homeseer may arguably be more advanced/complete, but it doesn’t suit me as well as Vera.
ALL of them, especially the newcomers are making promises of bold futures “real soon” ™. But, so far NONE have delivered and that includes SmartThings! Don’t even try to argue this point. None have delivered.
I don’t think for a minute that Vera or Micasaverde as a company is going away. But, new stuff will continue to be long and slow coming.
For me, I buy what’s available now. I can’t control my home with futuristic vaporware.
Well said zwave. Now if we could get the others on the forum to realize this. Vera has it’s quirks and peeps like to complain. But to think f what the box can do in it’s price range, it can’t be beat right now.
[quote=“Z-Waver, post:4, topic:181540”]Please allow me to start the firestorm…
Vera is, in my opinion, the most advanced/complete offering in the sub $1,000 controller range. Homeseer may arguably be more advanced/complete, but it doesn’t suit me as well as Vera.[/quote]
I’m curious, what do you believe is Homeseer’s disadvantages? Have you researched the latest version of HS3? I’m currently in process of doing it, and so far, all I see are advantages, including company personnel that actually participate in the forums and ask users for their feedback in terms of issues/features that should be prioritized. What a concept!
But I’m serious about the question, what disadvantages do you see to HS3?
@TC1 - I have not looked at HomeSeer this year. The last time I did look at them I was not enamored with the need for a dedicated Windows PC or their PC “appliance” for reasons of space, power and heat. Cost was an issue. Not so much for the unit itself, but for the various plugins and apps. There were other things as well, but I don’t remember the specifics at this time.
For me Vera’s low one-time cost, extensibility, extensive plugin availability, and the community tilted me toward Vera and away from HomeSeer. But, that’s not to suggest that there is anything specifically wrong or deficient with HomeSeer. In fact, I think that if you did a point by point comparison of features and supported devices, HomeSeer would best Vera. Luckily, I haven’t needed them, yet.
@Z-waver, things have indeed changed. They have several different levels of embedded controllers now, starting from sub-$200 to around the $1000 mark. Don’t like their hardware? You can now load their software on the hardware and OS of your choice, Linux or any flavor of Windows, whatever you feel more comfortable with. You don’t have the problem of CPU or memory limitations like Vera, you the customer are in control of that. I’m contemplating using an Intel NUC box for an extremely powerful yet low-cost and low-power HA controller. And since it’s Linux or Windows, you can lock it down as you see fit.
Full SDK, many plugins, both company supported and 3rd party. And like i said, active participation in the forums by the company itself. You always know what’s up. Plus, anyone can download a trial version for free and kick the tires, no financial risk or commitment. I’ll be loading it up on a spare laptop when I get the chance.
I thought exactly like you about a year ago, HS for me was not that appealing. The new version, reading around their forums, and free trial changes everything about what I use to think about the product. But don’t take my word for it (I wouldn’t ;D ) I encourage people to do their own research.
-TC
I just checked Homeseer site and the 200 dollar unit is very limited with no available upgrades. The next price up at 250 does allow for upgrades at a steep cost for each. Comparing the two isn’t comparing apples to apples. Is Homeseer better? Possibly, but at what cost? Does it provide the same openness as Vera at the same price point, certainly not. Vera has a market and will continue to have one for the foreseeable future.
@Malathan - If it helps, I’m currently in the middle of a hands on review of several affordable home automation controllers. So far I’ve reviewded the Vera3, SmartThings and Lowe’s Iris. Next up will be Staples Connect.
I’ve been using Vera for over a year and its not perfect. But as I’m reviewing other controllers, I’ve noticed none of them are perfect, and I actually miss my Vera.
Here’s a link to the main blog post where I talk about what (and how) I’m reviewing. You’ll find links to the individual reviews there as well. Hope this helps you decide what to get.
You get what you pay for. Ever think there’s a reason a VeraLite costs <$200? There’s nothing special about it, the hardware is extremely outdated and non-expandable. For a little more investment (still less than $1000) you can buy HS3Pro (comes with every option) and load it up on a dedicated Intel NUC or Atom processor box (some people are actually running it in a VM), you can’t do any of those things with Vera. You’ve got a HA system then that you will not outgrow or have to continuously worry you’ll overload it with too many devices or plugins.
When I first got into the HA world, I had the Walmart mentality and went for a VeraLite. But after living with all the limitations (both the product AND the company itself) you hopefully start to realize it doesn’t have to be that way. All it takes is some open minded research and a better investment of one’s HA dollars.
To each their own, YMMV 
Basing the decision on the controller cost is a trap that everyone seems to fall into, but it’s a mistake. Moderate to full automation of the average home will run $3,000 or much more in short order, not to mention the investment in time. Saving a few dollars on the controller doesn’t really save you much, if anything.
It may be a mistake as well, but the recurring costs, such as remote access or monitoring are what turn me off. But, much more so are the cloudy based systems that will not function without the mother company and their paid account.
I’ll have another look at HS, when I have some time, but based on the reading material that I’ve seen, I don’t see anything compelling enough for me to abandon my present implementation.
Glad to hear it Z-Waver, you’re definitely, IMO, one of the more level headed and sensible folks here. And I agree 100% with you, I am not looking for a product with recurring costs (other than my time once in a while).
-TC
Pro MCV here with some questions. It’s all great and good to say there not going away. Does anybody have any ballpark figures on:
How many employees at MCV?
How many units of Vera do they sell?
What are gross sales?
These tech startups close at the drop of a hat.
First off MCV has been around for awhile. Not like the kick starter companies that are out there. Second MCV’s main source of income is from OEM and licensing deals for their Mios engine which the vera runs on. Third the people who can answer your questions are MCV themselves.
- Garrett
[quote=“lastmacuser, post:14, topic:181540”]…
How many units of Vera do they sell?
…[/quote]
Vera may be the market leader when microvera oem units are included. But I don’t see Vera, as a privately held company, giving out the information you want. The new controller companies are undoubtedly tiny. SmartThings is very limited if your looking for extensive HA.
Fibraro and Homeseer strike me as the companies most professionally addressing the ‘home’ part of the HA market. But I’m not a user of either. The grass is always greener.
Vera is attractive to technical users, and those who want to have the best chance of being able to add just about every zwave device available.
[quote=“dzmiller, post:16, topic:181540”][quote=“lastmacuser, post:14, topic:181540”]…
How many units of Vera do they sell?
…[/quote]
Vera is attractive to technical users, and those who want to have the best chance of being able to add just about every zwave device available.[/quote]
I will have to respectfully disagree with that statement, being an actual Vera user, and now having researched HomeSeer. People don’t seem to realize that HS has been doing HA for over a decade now, long before Vera. And since they sell both embedded units (like a VeraLite) and software only solutions, they are decoupled from the radio protocol stack. So if updates come out for the Z-wave standard, you simply invest in a new Z-wave USB stick if there are radio changes. So in fact, HS has a better chance of supporting more Z-wave devices than Vera.
Knowledge and research is a powerful thing.
Just my two cents, but I wonder how many of you would be so happy with vera if we didn’t have the pleg app. Before I took the pleg plunge, I was a little disappointed with my progress and happy to just have my alarm system on my iphone. I assume if i were checking out another system, I wouldn’t have the insight to know there may or may not be something so powerful that isn’t showing up in their documentation. Vera allows me to have a ‘starter’ set which has been extremely helpful by allowing me to identify my needs a little bit at a time. The little bit of information that is available about how the beta process is going for ui7, I believe the original question is valid. Are they alive, are they going to be around, and have they ever developed a product used by customers? I guess I am happy because I don’t know what my other options are and the strength of the forum is just amazing. But to repeat, without pleg I would be more aggressive in finding out what my other options are.
[quote=“TC1”][quote=“dzmiller, post:16, topic:181540”][quote=“lastmacuser, post:14, topic:181540”]…
How many units of Vera do they sell?
…[/quote]
Vera is attractive to technical users, and those who want to have the best chance of being able to add just about every zwave device available.[/quote]
I will have to respectfully disagree with that statement, being an actual Vera user, and now having researched HomeSeer. People don’t seem to realize that HS has been doing HA for over a decade now, long before Vera. And since they sell both embedded units (like a VeraLite) and software only solutions, they are decoupled from the radio protocol stack. So if updates come out for the Z-wave standard, you simply invest in a new Z-wave USB stick if there are radio changes. So in fact, HS has a better chance of supporting more Z-wave devices than Vera.
Knowledge and research is a powerful thing.[/quote]
Let’s see, I don’t like the fact they nickel and dime you to death. They don’t have a great api for third party app development. I don’t want to run a dedicated box to run the software. And to develop plugins you have to pay from the last I checked.
- Garrett
The comparisons is not the same. Homeseer as a solution is varied in cost and solutions provided are distinctly different.
If people want to complain about Vera roadmap and release patterns, Homeseer would probably not be to your liking either. There support is very good and yes, they are very active on their forum… But, do not disagree with them as they are very passionate about their product and solution.
I have HS3 pro (fully licences) but I just don’t use it. I haven’t look at the Linux deployment yet but it has some limitation as compared to their other systems. WRT to their newer low end solution at comparable price to Vera, it is limited in some operation and other RaspberryPi solution and open sourced solution may do as well.
Yes, they have been in the business for some time but so has MCV… What is the major difference, MCV support an commercial OEM market that appears to be growing and therefore, not an insignificant achievement in any terms.
Anyone can download and trail HS3, but you hit the known limitation (that are declared in their versions wrt remote access, app etc), they have recently released some update on remote access that is provided for free now. Also if you are not using their web interface, you need to design your own mobile interface, at a cost… This and there revenue from app and hardware sale keep it alive…
No you do not have to pay to develop your own apps and there were some very good and helpful developers with HS.
I moved away from HS, 4 year ago, the dynamics of the Vera capability, the forum, total cost of ownership, including operating costs and return of investment I believe are the draw cards for Vera. I will be very interested in the next hardware solution they pick because the low cost technical solutions have developed a long way since the Vera3 and veralite were released.