MCV, where are you going with Vera? Are we headed back to Subscriptions?

MCV, even after your customers asked you repeatedly, you still do not use the official thread which was created to keep the customer base in the loop of what is going on.

It has been years now, with two hardware versions of Vera released, and yet as a company, and product developer, you keep ignoring basic functionality requests from the customer base. What a portion of your core customer base wants and keeps asking from you is :

A stable Vera running UI2 or UI4 with local user accounts, SSL HTTPS internal and external port access, and a simple email server running for notifications on the Vera that has a check box to stop calling MCV.

We, your customers, have asked for this functionality for years. As far as I have read, MCV continues to REMOVE the parts of this capability in UI 4 that we had in UI2. Now we are being forced to move to UI 4. I have seen posts by much smarter linux/drt users than me in which they accomplish this for free with open source GNU stuff. Why have you not done this?

I can only come to one conclusion, you don’t want us to have Vera under our control in a LAN environment at all. You need Vera to be securely accessible only through an MCV portal. I am sure one could argue that we wouldn’t be nearly as secure with a self-signed SSL certificate, but actually, we would.

The original pricing of the Vera seemed to depend on people subscribing to a service along with buying Vera. I remember a tiered system for XX sms messages, etc. It was very generous and a smart marketing move to not charge for the basic access and the charges went away, but I always assumed to be a sustainable, profitable business model you still need that recurring revenue stream. UI4 seems to guarantee that model should you throw the switch. I don’t see a subscription model as nefarious, but I do think that if this is the direction you are headed, you should reconsider the approach.

Why is MCV so sure that taking away local control and accessibility from the device is the correct direction. I would love to see your market research into this, but it seems that the theory must be that the user base for this product really is a mainstream electronics consumer, and that by moving control, maintenance, and access into MCV’s hands and out of the consumer’s, you can create a device that appears to be simple and easy to use while reducing tech support cost.

My narrow experience over the past few years is that a large, vocal portion of your market wants the exact opposite. Your security forum is full of YEARS worh of posts wanting more control of the device, more local capabilities, and less WAN to LAN intrusion via the Vera initiated VPN to MCV. Having a device establish a vpn with a third party (even the trustworthy people of MCV) from within a LAN therefore bypassing most consumer firewalls is not an acceptable risk for even moderately secure networks. Vera is on the inside interface of the router and therefore trusted by default by most consumer routers and software firewalls. The MCV VPN termination could easily be used for near total LAN access on most home networks. While I might trust MCV, there is no way to quantify the risk posed by the VERA device.

In conclusion, if the goal is to move us to a subscription model, tell us. If UI 4 access restrictions lay the groundwork for a subscription model just tell us. If that is the case, please consider the option to buy a license to control our Veras locally. If you aren’t moving Vera back to a subscription, add the functionality we have been asking for over the past few years so that we aren’t dependent upon MCV. I would imagine it would be much cheaper to have a server load decreased with a few thousand less Veras hitting it all of the time. . .

all i can say is: LOL

(as much as i want exactly the same thing, i have a feeling we will be waiting a while, read: forever.)

actually that woudl eb a good idea. have two models.
model one : you buy vera for 400$ and this includes a hands-off installation. meaning : its own email server ,ssh and all the other stuff that the do-it-yourself tinkerers want. MCV will not do any control and you cannot login using cp.mios.com. you are on your own, hack to your hearts content and use the forums for self-help.

model two : a 300$ device with , let’s say 5 $ or a month or a yearly 50$ subscription fee. this gives you remote access through cp.mios.com and you use the services from the site. I would be willing to subscribe. I am not technically savvy enough, and i have no interest to tweak this linux box and install all these vpn tunnels and other stuff. i am perfectly happy going through a portal and have a centralised server sendin me the notifications on the condition that 1) these servers are geographically duplicated9i don;t want to hear about disk crashes or spillt coffee on the server) 2) all of the bugs i mentioned in my ‘big thread’ are addressed and solved. 3) there are regular, scheduled updates to the system. 4) it works as they claim in all the marketing hype and on the micasaverde website 5) there is CLEAR documentation.

If i pay a subscription there’d better be some support ! and again , i have no problem paying for such a service. But it has to work as stated , and be supported with updates, bugfixes and documentation. otherwise you are just paying money for nothing.

If the subscription model ever comes online like i have outlined here above i will be the first to throw little bits of greenish paper with pictures of dead presidents towards MCV. No problem. But it HAS TO WORK RIGHT AND BE SUPPORTED

Hmm, I’ll be honest, this has put me off buying a Vera.
I want local LAN management access only, my Internet connection is flakey at the best of times.
If I need remote access (very unlikely in my planned application) I can access via logmein if it’s urgent.
I might wait and see what the SQ Blaster Pro is like, if I can get that to provide basic control of my squeezebox duet receivers (not IR) then its a no brainer

Stop mentioning subscriptions!!! Just stop bringing it up, because in my opinion it is a supreme deal breaker and would cause me to throw Vera against the wall just to avoid another monthly fee.

If you want a well supprted system with a monthly fee go sign up for Schlage’s service.

There is no way that monthly fees are going to be the magic that motivates MCV to be able to fix every issue that everyone has with Vera. They might gain revenue with the fees, but they’ll instantly loose most of their customers (the ones who chose Vera over Schlage due to no fees).

I don’t think MCV is trying prevent users from having “Vera under our control in a LAN environment”. I just think they are limited in what they take on, and LAN only control isn’t at the top of their list. By all means rally for the features you want to see in Vera, but don’t even suggest going to the dark side of monthly subscriptions.

You could do both.

Here is vera without monthly subscription. You set up your own means to ‘call in from outside’. No fee.
Here is vera with subsrciption : we give you a portal to call in you pay 5$ for that service. This for people who don’t know how,or can’t be bothered, to muck around with local mail servers, ddns and vpn tunnels.

you pick the one you want.

Developers need to eat too you know. I don’t think vera has enough traction to live off its hardware sales alone to pay the developers.
Free software ( as in -gratis- ) is an economical failure… it doesn’t feed the chickens …
No-one likes to work for free.

[quote=“vincenthimpe, post:6, topic:168697”]Developers need to eat too you know. I don’t think vera has enough traction to live off its hardware sales alone to pay the developers.
Free software ( as in -gratis- ) is an economical failure… it doesn’t feed the chickens …
No-one likes to work for free.[/quote]

Which is why I have paid MCV for the products I have purchased. So far I have paid MCV (for Vera 1 and 2) for a lot less hardware/software close to what I paid for a new Mac Mini with Snow Leopard, which we all know is priced high by Apple, and Apple makes a profit with a lot more overhead. Nobody ever said anything about wanting free software or wanting something for nothing. MCV made a smart move, early on, to offer access for free and while it is an expense to them, it brings a lot more value to their product than it costs them to run. As I have said before, the free access is the only reason MCV was able to steal so many of Schlage’s customers (and the reason Schlage had to drop their price a little).

How about we let MCV decide how they want to price their offerings?

[quote=“shady, post:5, topic:168697”]Stop mentioning subscriptions!!! Just stop bringing it up, because in my opinion it is a supreme deal breaker and would cause me to throw Vera against the wall just to avoid another monthly fee.[/quote] ;D

I was doing the subscription dance for a while too but I think you’re right, it won’t fix anything. I can’t figure out where MCV is going with this product, and I can’t figure out why everything takes so long. I originally thought they didn’t have the cash flow to deal with the growing demand of its users but I don’t know if that’s the case now. I do wonder why they don’t hire hoards of programmers (or even send it over seas) for a short period of time and just get everything up to snuff. I also don’t understand why they don’t work closer with companies that make hardware so we can have controllers that aren’t hacks and just some of the buttons work or you have to spend hours searching the forums to figure how to get them to work. I don’t expect anything to be 100% perfect but this product is so close to being a HUGE hit, I mean take over the world kind of hit, if they could just make it NOT require a programmer to stand over your shoulder and force its users to do hours of research to get products to work with it.

Just my .02

[quote=“shady, post:5, topic:168697”]Stop mentioning subscriptions!!! Just stop bringing it up, because in my opinion it is a supreme deal breaker and would cause me to throw Vera against the wall just to avoid another monthly fee.

If you want a well supported system with a monthly fee go sign up for Schlage’s service. [/quote]
I feel the same way about a fee to use Vera.
If that was part of the deal going in, then that monthly/annual fee was factored in my purchasing decision. But to introduce a required monthly/annual fee after the sale of a previously subscription free unit would just be unconscionable.

I specifically avoided the Schlage gateway so I wouldn’t incur any subscription fees.

I would rather see MCV go out of business before requiring a subscription fee for existing Vera units.

The day there is a subscription for Vera is the day I purchase HomeSeer. I can’t imagine it would happen though so this is all a waste of our time.